posted on July 16, 2002 01:05:28 PM new
Bush is bound and determined not to have anything to do with Cuba or Castro.The lame human rights issues don't wash because of
Favorite trade status with China,And other countrys who the US has trade agreements with,That are known for suppressing the rights of their people.
Having an oilman president, in office makes me wonder if Cuba is possibly sitting on the biggest oil reserve in the world.
This is something I'v wondered about a long time........If you want to change about a dictatorship,Wouldnt you at least try to get a friendly conversation going first?
Maybe I just don't understand the history
here,Other then the missle crises(sp?)of the 60s.
Are there Cuban cells here,Waiting to take over the US? Look out Miami!
[ edited by junquemama on Jul 16, 2002 01:07 PM ]
posted on July 16, 2002 01:33:13 PM new
China has stuff we want so you have to be practical and look the other way even though they treat their people bad and are communist.
Cuba has very little we want so we can afford to treat them like crap especially since they are poor and communist.
If Cuba was floating on oil it would be a whole different story.
Bush and company are probably more than a little envious of any country like China where the people have to keep their mouths shut toe the line. But they're working on it.
There would be a ton of people vacation in Cuba instead of Florida if they were not forbidden. But such is the price of freedom?
posted on July 16, 2002 01:34:56 PM new
After Russia collapsed the Cubans need another sugar daddy and want to "normalize" relations. The last few admins just pretend Cuba doesn't exist because of the anti-Castro Florida vote. We'll wait til Castro drops dead and "La Revolucion" collapses. Then it's hello multi-billion dollar resort time!
posted on July 16, 2002 02:03:02 PM new
De Squirrel, you're right about that resort time. The cruise lines will go nuts when Cuba opens up. Roadtown built up in just a couple years. Since much of the Caribbean gets so much income from the tourist industry, this will affect quite a few islands, especially Puerto Rico and St. Thomas.
Junquemama, Bush is a Republican, and a lot of the old Cubanos are die hard Republicans. They and some firms have property disputes in Cuba. If he alienates them, there goes urban South Fl. votes.
Carter just was there. He called for lifting the embargo and praised a project run by dissidents. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on July 16, 2002 02:20:11 PM new
Florida had been identified by political strategists as one of, if not the, key states to win for a party to capture the presidency, which the last election so unmistakably verified. And that's of course the reason that Carter was sent on his sucker mission to try to establish talks with the Castro government and then shredded to ribbons by Bush on his very modest report about the possibilities. It served the dual purpose of solidifying and holding the Cuban vote in Florida and undermining Carter, who has become very well-respected and liked by the American people for his work since his presidency, as a spokesperson for the democratic party or more likely a potential focus for opposition toward Bush's assault on the Bill of Rights. It's somewhat similar to how Colin Powell is being used in the Middle East and the War on Terrorism, as the token moderate in the Bush cabinet. Powell understands what's happening but still believes that he can exert some influence. I'm skeptical that the result will be anything other than that he is discredited but it's a tribute to his character that Powell keeps at it under the circumstances.
posted on July 16, 2002 02:49:08 PM new
Ya. It really was a shame that Carter got set up, but he should have known better to trust a Republican.
As for Colin Powell, I'm happy that a "Black Man" has risen so highly in America as it paves the way for others ot go. But listening to him and how wishy-washy sounding he is as he trots out the party line, I think about the "Black Man achievement" and wonder if there's really anything to celebrate.
posted on July 16, 2002 03:15:33 PM new
Really now, where do you guys get this stuff from???
Castro invited Carter to get some press time since Russia won't give him the time of day anymore. Carter being a very nice guy graciously accepted. He should really stick to stuff he's good at like Habitat for Humanity and other pitch in and help projects. He travels around under the auspices of the Carter Foundation when invited to promote "peaceful" type stuff. Castro dreams about having the separated families bopping down for a visit and dropping off a few mil.
posted on July 16, 2002 04:33:20 PM new
Well, let's see. Out of the blue Bush begins to accuse Cuba of being a terrorist nation and threat to our national security. The whole world's wondering what's going on with that. Though the animosity between the two is well-known, there's been no indication that Cuba is a threat for decades.
Castro has invited Carter to visit Cuba on prior occasions to report his observations about conditions in the country, but Carter hasn't done so. There's no question but that Carter plays by the book and he has never undertaken any informal talks without the blessings of the state department.
Threatened with being one of the axis of evil designees, Castro issues an invitation to Carter and after some time has passed, he agrees to make the trip. The state department is reported to wish him well.
When he returns, he is attacked by the president for reporting what Castro has said would be necessary to begin talks to normalize relations.
Then the hardline rhetoric toward Cuba cools and it's no longer an imminent threat.
But it's probably all just coincidence again. There are no doubt other interpretations that make sense. But I haven't been able to come up with any.
posted on July 16, 2002 05:57:46 PM new
Still nothing bad...that would limit our
relationship with Cuba.Okay,Then why is the war prison there? And why would Cuba allow this space of land for American military?
Just trying real hard to fill in the
spaces.I always wanted to visit the island,
All the automobiles I have seen pictures of are American and from the 1950s era.
I'd love to see the old casinos that I heard were decorated from the deco style.
Maybe they are all waste now.
posted on July 16, 2002 07:51:14 PM new
posted on July 16, 2002 04:33:20 PM
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Well, let's see. Out of the blue Bush begins
Bush has not manufactured any threat you give him a lot of credit for things way beyond his power..
Castro on the ed sullivan show
Sullivan what about fair trials ?
Castro th people do not want trials they want them shot.
Jusy one question memory loss can come from alzheimers, Been using a lot of aluminum utensils lately ?
posted on July 16, 2002 08:17:39 PM new
No, but if I were you, I'd read up on it. If you think that anything that I said indicated an approval of the Castro government, then you have some comprehension problems.
posted on July 16, 2002 10:27:11 PM new
"Bush begins to accuse Cuba of being a terrorist nation"
It always was and the only thing stopping Castro now is he has more important things to worry about, like keeping everybody from starving to death (bad for the papers, you know). Something tells me if we start feeding them, lots of latin countries are going to have "problems".
I do not see 1 tinker's damn of a reason for us to "normalize" relationships with Cuba.
junquemama
Cuba does not "allow" Guantanamo. It was leased from Batista's gov and when Castro took over, he decided it was best not to challenge an American army for the eviction.
The old casinos are mostly shabby hotels now that used to be filled with Russian tourists and are now mostly empty. The quaint old American rustbuckets on the roads are due to the fact that the government doesn't allow in too many vehicles because it is a drain on hard currency. You either patch 'em up or walk. It's a real socialist worker's paradise.
posted on July 16, 2002 10:58:13 PM new
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"Bush begins to accuse Cuba of being a terrorist nation"
It always was and the only thing stopping Castro now is he has more important things to worry about, like keeping everybody from starving to death (bad for the papers, you know).Something tells me if we start feeding them, lots of latin countries are going to have "problems".
I've missed the proof that the Bush administration provided of that fact. The Cuban Missile Crisis was in 1962. They haven't even been able to establish proof of a link between Iraq and terrorism connected to the U. S.
I'm personally opposed to any form of dictatorship and it's certainly no secret of Cuba's enmity, but that doesn't automatically make them a terrorist nation.
I do not see 1 tinker's damn of a reason for us to "normalize" relationships with Cuba.
Neither do I, but that wasn't the point. The point was the use of terrorism to score political points at home.
posted on July 17, 2002 02:37:59 AM new
I don't think that my definition of terrorism much matters, but what I've been trying to figure out is what the administration's definition of terrorism is. If we may now pursue the policy of attacking any nation or group of rebels within a nation that can be identified as terrorist, then what behaviors constitute terrorism? How indirect can a threat be and still be considered terrorist? All of which is complicated considerably by the new "us" and "them" doctrine, which somehow accompanies the war on terrorism. There can be no neutral position since by default the neutral party will be a "them." So since Jordan called an international news conference today to make clear that it would remain neutral in an attack against Iraq, would Jordan now become a terrorist state? Russia has also declared that it will remain neutral. So will it become a terrorist state and the Chechen rebels revert back to freedom fighters as they were prior to the alliance with Russia?
If a pro-democracy minority force attempts to overthrow the Cuban government, are they freedom fighters or terrorists? If a pro-democracy minority force attempts to overthrow the Saudi government, are they freedom fighters or terrorists?
posted on July 17, 2002 08:00:18 AM new
What Castro needs to do is gather up all the dissidents into a large square. Have them yell pro-democracy slogans, have banners and effigies. Then suddenly, machine gun them all dead. He could then apply for most-favored trade status. Worked for China.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on July 17, 2002 08:26:09 AM new
antiquiry I did not mean to indicate that you supported cuba in any way shape or form
sorry if any took it that way
mlecher
posted on July 17, 2002 08:00:18 AM
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What Castro needs to do is gather up all the dissidents into a large square. Have them yell pro-democracy slogans, have banners and effigies. Then suddenly, machine gun them all dead. He could then apply for most-favored trade status. Worked for China.
.
No wont work for him unless he finds an indonesian business man to give money to the democratic party (footnote the reprubs would probably take it too)
posted on July 17, 2002 08:39:04 AM new
My point is, why do we shun Cuba at all. Compare to some of the gov't we have gotten into bed with Castro is a saint. And in the beginning, Castro wanted support for a pro-democracy rebellion to overthrow the present corrupt government(actually, at first he wanted to pitch for the Yankees, but they cut him.) The politics shunned him at the time, The dictatorship was our friend at the time. Cuba was a good place to hide money, get bribes and conduct alot of illegal business. Why end such a good deal with such a idealistic concept such as democracy for the Cuban people. He never forgave us for that, though I believe he did forgive the Yankees. He went communist ONLY because the only other country who wanted to support him and had the means to help him was the Soviet Union, and a communist-style gov't was required. Alot of the wealthly cubans in Florida that are adamant against Castro....they lost everything in Cuban, things they had gained through the corruption and oppression by the previous Cuban gov't.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on July 17, 2002 11:37:38 AM new
We shun Cuba because of the Beard, When he drops dead it mnight be different if the next in line is not a dickhead like the guy in North Korea.
posted on July 17, 2002 01:36:09 PM new
We will only allow Cuba back into the "fold" when the person who takes over is someone who can be "controlled". Take that recent attempt at a coup in South America. We were supporting an excellent "customer" rather than the popular, widely supported and democratically elected ruler. The customer was controllable, the president was independent.
.
Reality is a serious condition brought on by a lack of alcohol in the system
posted on July 19, 2002 12:32:04 AM new
Look Up the name Walker historically, after the civil war before the war with spain,
we that is the usa elite have always played games with central and south america,
back in 1878 Chile insulted the congress they raved about a war to punish chile until it was discovered they had sucked so much away from the military that chile would have won.
there have always been rats probably always will be its just that we should not let them run things.
