posted on October 25, 2002 12:09:14 PM new
I have a few questions about your medical system...
- Does everyone have to pay insurance?
- Does it come out of your paychecks?
- If you didn't have coverage and were in an accident, would you end up owing all that money?
- Where do poor people go for medical attention?
- Do you have to pay for Doctor's visits?
- Can you write off any medical expenses on your Income Tax return?
posted on October 25, 2002 12:22:04 PM new
- Does everyone have to pay insurance? 'Have' to...no
- Does it come out of your paychecks? If you have medical coverage through your employeer.
- If you didn't have coverage and were in an accident, would you end up owing all that money? County hospitals provide care for those unable to pay.
- Where do poor people go for medical attention? see above
- Do you have to pay for Doctor's visits? Some do some don't.
- Can you write off any medical expenses on your Income Tax return?
After deducting a certain portion of your income...you can then deduction the medical expenses in excess of that amount.
posted on October 25, 2002 12:30:03 PM new
If you didn't have coverage and were in an accident, would you end up owing all that money? You could end up owing it. Some hospitals try to work out repayment plans with their patients. And some patients have declared bankruptcy because there is no way to pay what they owe.
Where do poor people go for medical attention? For nonemergencies, some health departments and hospitals have clinics. Other people just show up at emergency rooms because they can't afford to go to a doctor's office for nonemergency matters.
posted on October 25, 2002 01:21:23 PM new
Does everyone have to pay insurance?
No. Some people can't get insurance, such as those with pre-existing conditions. Some employers will provide very chintzy insurance as a "free" insurance benefit, but the employee will get about 2$/hour less than one who pays for their insurance.
Does it come out of your paychecks?
If the employer offers it. Many employers are using part time and temp workers to avoid the large expense of offering health insurance.
- If you didn't have coverage and were in an accident, would you end up owing all that money?
Yes. While county hospitals have to provide care, the patient will be billed, and the hospitals will turn the unpaid bills over to collection agencies. Hospital billings are a big scandal waiting to happen.
- Where do poor people go for medical attention?
People under a certain income level are covered under Medicaid insurance. They can go to clinics, hospitals, ect.
- Do you have to pay for Doctor's visits?
Yes. Their offices are quite vehement about it.
- Can you write off any medical expenses on your Income Tax return?
Over a certain percentage of income.
You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on October 25, 2002 01:48:44 PM new
Wow, that's pretty gloomy. So, is there one main insurance company that handles everything, or is it a bunch of them?
posted on October 25, 2002 02:17:28 PM new
Thanks snowy. That makes me wonder how people cope in the U.S. Everyone (except the rich) must fear ever getting sick. And if you do get sick, worrying about how you're going to pay for things would make you sicker.
posted on October 25, 2002 02:39:02 PM new
kraft- some county hospitals provide various medical services for free or at greatly reduced rates as per one's financial qualifications. There are also medical discount plans such as Care Entree which contract with PPOs for preferred provider pricing. Those who have been spoiled by $10 Dr. visit copays and RX drugs are in for a rude awakening as these are the plans that are raising copays and premiums the fastest.
posted on October 27, 2002 06:48:32 PM new
Kraftdinner,
I know that you are from Canada in the fact that you have said this in the past and that Kraftdinner is Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. This is of course is without any hard feeling to our Canadian Friends.
I live on the Canadian border and know that you folks have a socialized medicine program. You pay little or nothing for your medical treatments. However, with that comes a great cost. When the government owns the medical system, they control it. This control includes how and when money is spent on research, equipment, buildings and personal. My former wife is an RN and on her unit there are 2 Registered Nurses from Canada. They wait sometimes 30 minutes to cross a bridge and pay both Canadian and US income taxes. The pay for RNs in the US is better than in Canada. I would think the same for Doctors.
In the US, the hospitals are usually run by a non profit corporation. Many smaller hospitals have merged with larger ones to reduce the operational costs. They of course due strive to make a profit and run effiecently as a business. They send out bills and hire collection agencies for non payment. They are able to buy modern medical equipment for the health care consumer. In the US, if you have insurance, it will be billed and you may have a deductable which they will continually bill you for until its paid. Payment plans are available for those that can't pay the total balance. If I needed heart bypass surgery in the US, I could have it in one week.
On the other hand, in Canadain hospitals, there is very often a waiting list for what could sometimes be a very serious condition. Many people from Canada go to Detroit area hospitals for quicker treatment.
"Canadian doctors had nothing to offer me; now, instead of a death sentence, I have hope," said G. Barry Shields, a retired business owner from Renfrew, near Ottawa. He spoke at a news conference Wednesday called to announce that Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan had started the new treatment. Shields initially was treated with conventional radiation and hormone-suppressing drugs following his December 1996 prostate cancer diagnosis.
At the beginning of November 1993, my Canadian doctor diagnosed that I had a major inguinal hernia that would require surgery. Upon his diagnosis, my doctor put me immediately on the surgery wait list. After waiting over four months, I had still not heard any word as to an expected surgery date. Because I was in pain and discomfort every day and had physically deteriorated to such an extent that some people barely recognized me, I sought out medical care at a hospital in Seattle, Washington. When the Seattle doctor saw my hernia he was aghast that I had waited for over four and a half months for surgery. He then asked me what day I would like to have my surgery!
Here's an interesting one. I have an artificial hip. From the time to the first visit to the surgeon, to discharge from the hospital, it was two weeks. No problems since 1993.
The 75-year-old who needs a hip replacement has to wait 15 months to see an orthopedic surgeon, then another 15 months to have the surgery. Small wonder Cleveland has become known as the hip-replacement capital for Ontario.
I'll take the bills when they ever come due. You can always earn extra money, but you can't earn extra health.
posted on October 27, 2002 08:57:38 PM new
The only reason a patient can get medical procedures done right away in the US is because the poor and uninsured aren't in the waiting line for these services as they are in Canada.
I have a neice that is a doctor and a nephew that is a pharmisist. They both tell me that something has got to give soon in the US health care situation. There will soon be millions more without insurance in the US as the cost of insurance is becoming too expensive for employers.
There are no "free" or "discounted" medical services for the poor in the US. What medical service providers do is add the costs for services to the poor and unisured or underinsured to the bills of the patients that can pay or have insurance.
posted on October 28, 2002 11:55:22 AM new
yeager, yes Kraftdinner is a yummy treat for the taxed-to-death Canadians... if you can afford it! ($1.65 a box!!!)
You are right about the Canadian medical system being bogged down with certain surgeries. It's not the quickest, but does allow everyone the same care whether insured or not.
The BIG problem in Canada is diagnosis. We're big on tests here but BAD on diagnosis. You could have a big growth on your face but instead of cutting it off, you'd spend weeks of MRI's CT scans, blood tests, x-rays, etc., then wait a few months before they could tell you they weren't sure what you had. My dad was getting pains in his stomach and spent almost 2 years undergoing tests after tests... even had his spleen removed, then was told by his doctor, over the phone one day, out of the blue, he had pancreatic cancer. TWO years to find out. He died 3 months later. This has happened with several relatives & friends over the years... all died from lack of a proper diagnosis. So our medical system might sound like a dream come true, but it's not. Although your system sounds worse, I was wondering if it really is. I wondered why there was so many people flocking to the U.S. from poor countries when the medical care is so expensive.
Thanks for your posts. It's giving me food-for-thought.
posted on October 28, 2002 12:05:01 PM new
The thing about having the "gummit" pay for health care is that it turns out to be one big HMO. And everyone is screaming about how HMOs operate like insurance companies. Say I'm in danger of losing my leg. My doctor tells me there is a procedure which is effective 15% of the time. Since I'M paying for it, I take the shot. A gummit peon would say that the 15% ratio is not effective and call me stumpy.
posted on October 28, 2002 12:23:51 PM new
The cheapest rate for health insurance I was quoted was $836/month, just for myself. And it still had a high deductible. The average person around here makes a little over $600/month. Nothing around here but minimum wage jobs or jobs paying $6/hr, if you're lucky.
posted on October 28, 2002 12:44:53 PM new
Hi DeSquirrel & mezuzas.
So how do you do it?? Do you just opt out of insurance altogether and cross your fingers (so to speak)? I mean, who could afford that kind of money each month? What about retirees on a limited budget... do they have a special plan or anything, or are they just grouped in with the poor?
Not to go off topic, but it all bums me out. Here you have the greatest nation on earth that can freely do what it wants in other areas, with no spending limit, but can't assure the health of it's people. This doesn't make sense to me. Does Bush have any kind of health reform ideas?
posted on October 28, 2002 12:57:52 PM new
Our country would be so much healthier and the population alot better off if the Government paid for just a few inexpensive medical things. Such as a simple annual physical by a General Practioner for all Americans. Nothing complicated, just a basic physical. It would catch a lot of small problems that would be halfway affordable to an average American before it became big and critical and expensive.
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I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
posted on October 28, 2002 01:09:47 PM new
Kraftdinner...
Why do so many people flock to the US for medical treatment? Because they do not have to pay for it. It is nice when people come here for surgeries not available in their country, but have the means to pay for it. But if you do not have the money, show up in the emergency room, it is against the law to turn you away because of the ability to pay or if you are an illegal alien. They have to cure you first, then try to get the money from you. But it is extremely hard to get the money back from an illegal alien who has just been deported back to their country of origin.
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I live in my own little world, but it is Okay...They know me here.
posted on October 28, 2002 01:47:05 PM new
I think the US is going to have to go to a different model for primary care givers. Some sort of practioner with perhaps 4 or 5 years of post high school education that can diagnose and prescribe for simple aliments and recommend patients see a regular physician/specialist if need be. Why use a physician at $45 to $75 for an office call for a cold/flu/sore throat/sprain, when we might set up a system for a $5 visit with a different type of care giver ?
Prescription medicine cost problems are also going to get alot worse before it gets any better. Some states are taking desperate measures to try to lower medicine costs.
We also need to take an unemotional look at the cost in medical resources for dying. The largest amounts of medicare dollars are spent in the last 60 days of life of the elderly. No one has scruntinized what benefit these costs are doing for the patient, and for good reason- no politician would touch the subject with a 10 foot pole because many would confuse the recommendations with some form of euthanasia.
A universal health care system is coming sooner or later- the present can not last too much longer. Hilary Clinton was right, just premature.
posted on October 28, 2002 01:55:49 PM new
That makes the most sense to me mlecher. Healthy people make a healthy country.
Actually, I wasn't referring to illegals, but the people that become citizens. If they come to the U.S. to make a better life for themselves, how can they afford medical insurance when it's own people barely can. I guess they must go without as well. (??)
This all stems from watching a couple of these real life emergency shows. Gun shot wounds, stab wounds, etc. The care that goes into treating these people is amazing. It made me wonder how it's all paid for.
posted on October 28, 2002 02:47:11 PM new
mlecher,
I think you hit the nail square on the head. I think that a few simple procedures would end the mountains of medical bills that are sure to come from people who simply afford a visit to the doctor.
A simple example would be Black Americans who are on kidney dialysis. Most of these people end up on this due to several years of unchecked high blood pressure. If these people were able to get their blood pressure checked 4 times a year, and given proper medications, counseled on avoiding improper diet then they would not likely end up un dialysis. The cost of providing medicine at say, $75.00 per month for a year and the office calls may be $1000.00 per year. Even if the government did this for people over 45 yeard old, the savings would be overwhelming.
In the U.S., the percentage of Blacks is only about 12-14 percent. However, the percentage of Blacks on dialysis is about 40 percent. The cost of dialysis os about $45,000.00 per year. A person might live about 10 years on dialysis without a transplant. So at the end of 10 years, a person either Black or White would consume about $500,000.00 in medical care. If you were to elimanate high blood pressure for $1,000.00 a year, we could stop kidney disease, many heart problems, strokes in the elderly and many other problems.
In this case, it seems the government has cut off it's nose to spite it's face.
Kraftdiner,
WOW! $1.65 a box! Sometimes stores have them on sale here for 3 for a buck. Maybe I should buy some and sell them on ebay. I check this weeks ad a get back to you.
posted on October 28, 2002 04:20:31 PM newWhat about retirees on a limited budget... do they have a special plan or anything, or are they just grouped in with the poor?
All the retirees we have known are given medical insurance coverage [for a fee] when they retire. Just like they had while employed. Some have only medical benefits while others have dental and vision coverage also. Each plan is different. Very reasonable rates.
As Reamond suggested...HMOs are already doing. Got a cold, sore throat...simple illness they see a nurse rather than a doctor. Something a little more complicated? They see a nurse practioner. Serious...a doctor.
posted on October 28, 2002 05:24:13 PM new
Hahahahhahahahahaha yeager!! 3 for a dollar!?!?!? What a rip for us. Even your box looks better. Yours says REAL CHEESE... ours says the same but in micro printing it above it, it says "the look of".
posted on October 28, 2002 05:25:37 PM new
I doubt I'd ever be able to afford insurance.
The health care where I'm at is really bad. My daughter had pneumonia (spelling?) in both lungs and it was missed at the emergency room. We have medicaid and so the hospital wouldn't even examine her. They told me to keep giving her decongestants. They almost killed my baby. If I hadn't taken her to a doctor out of state, I'd have buried her instead of sending her to school now.
posted on October 28, 2002 05:52:10 PM new
My mother died because she had no insurance. While she was in intensive care it was discovered that her insurance had lapsed. That same day she was moved to a private room where she died.
posted on October 29, 2002 10:17:22 AM new
The next/current crisis is reimbursement rates for Medicaide and Medicare. Many doctors and hospitals are no longer treating medicare/aide patients because the reimbursement rates were reduced.
posted on October 29, 2002 10:46:07 AM new
Yes, I've read that too. Most the retirees we know have suplimental insurance. So probably those insurance companies will have to cover a larger % of bills and then their rates will go up too.
Reamond [or anyone who knows] - question please. When looking at the different state websites one can read the qualifications for the poor to obtain medicaid. Some states have limits of income up to $34,000 that can still receive medicaid benefits. So how can it be that anyone that is poor wouldn't have medicaid insurance?
posted on October 29, 2002 11:34:49 AM new
They may not have applied for it. The states also change the requirements anytime there is a budget shortfall. Medicaide and Medicare users also have the problem of finding providers that accept medicare/aide, and the payments most likely do not fully cover the health care. If an operation is billed at $4500 and medicare/aide will only pay $2500, what does the patient do ? They opt not to have the operation. The same with an office call that costs $50 and the govt reimburses only $25- the poor don't have the extra $25 so they can not consume the medical service, the same happens with medicine- costs $300 reimbursement only $150- do without the midicine or don't pay rent, or don't eat, etc.?
But the "poor" are not the total picture of the problem. It is the working poor that can't qualify for govt health care and even the middle class that are losing medical benfits through their employers that are adding to the overasll problem. The co-pays and deductables will soon start effecting the consumption of health care by the middle class, as well as the employers shifting more and more of the insurance premiums to the employees.
posted on October 29, 2002 12:00:35 PM new
Thank you Reamond - Not filing is a big problem, IMO. I know I sit on the fence on this issue.
I sure don't believe the government is going to do a better job of taking care of individual medical needs. And like was stated above, I want to be the one to decide [if I can afford to] to obtain some 'experimental' treatment that a 'governing person/body' might feel is a waste of money.
I don't agree with socialized medicine...or socialized anything. But I really have no good suggestion to offer to avoid this happening unless more stability is added to the medicaid program to keep it afloat. Like if funding were more available and not able to be changed, then I'd like to see the system stay as it is.
Trying to say here...that why should anyone have 100% of their medical costs taken care of, by taxpapers, when those who currenly pay differing insurance payments don't either. I believe the most common is the 80/20 program. For me personally if I needed a surgery and had to pay half...well then I'd just have to make payments over a long period of time. OR if they were too outrageous I'd file for bankruptcy. I don't want the government making my medical decisions for me. Just like I didn't care for it when the HMOs did the same thing.
I know my husband made career choices that included which employer offered the best benefits along with his salary.
Socialized medicine sounds too much to me like welfare. Another give-away, rather than people working to better themselves and stay more independent.
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