posted on May 24, 2004 07:23:26 PM new
Gen. Sherman Never Said War Is Heck
Posted by Dennis Campbell
Thursday, May 13, 2004
~~o~~
As he relentlessly marched through Georgia during the Civil War, Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman is famously said to have proclaimed, ''War is hell.''
Notice that he did not say, ''War is heck.''
Terrible, horrible, incomprehensibly evil things happen in war. People are treated horrendously, maimed, tortured, and subjected to the vilest of atrocities.
What happened at the Abu Ghraib prison complex near Baghdad did not reach that level.
Yes, what American prison guards in Iraq did to their Iraqi charges was wrong and they should be punished, and they will be – unlike what would have happened if it had been Arabs abusing Americans, in which case they would have been rewarded by their government and treated as heroes by their fellow Muslims.
There still is a difference between Americans and most of the rest of the world. When we read of such things we are indignant and demand accountability. When an American general learned of the situation, he immediately began an investigation.
But to hear publicity-loving Democrats, whose reason to live seems to have been reduced to a visceral hatred of President George W. Bush, vent their hysterical screechings one would think this affair was comparable to what the Japanese did to the Chinese in 1937.
Surely, you know that in the infamous “Rape of Nanking” the Japanese killed and brutalized nearly 350,000 Chinese. That was hell. Keeping prisoners naked in their cells is not.
While putting down a Jewish revolt, the Romans crucified Jews by the hundreds of thousands. That was hell. Humiliating Iraqi prisoners, while deplorable, is not.
What is interesting about this spectacle is who is leading the histrionics. There is Sen. Teddy Kennedy of Massachusetts, who is best known for leaving Mary Jo Kopechne to die a slow death at the bottom of the Willamette River in Chappaquiddick in 1969.
And there is Sen. John Kerry, also of Massachusetts, who admitted to participating in war atrocities during his four months of active duty in the Vietnam War.
Interestingly, while they clamor for the head of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, neither Kennedy nor Kerry has had to suffer any consequences for their own actions.
There was a time when Americans, unspoiled by high-tech wars that result in the loss of hundreds of American lives, understood clearly that war is hell.
When 17 Americans were killed in Iraq in a single day, it was termed the war’s ''deadliest day.'' When U.S. soldiers assaulted Omaha Beach in Normandy toward the end of World War II, they took 3,000 casualties – during the first wave.
When U.S. casualties in Iraq climbed to 134 in April, it was termed the war’s ''deadliest month.'' In the three months it took American forces to take Okinawa from the Japanese, they suffered more than 72,000 casualties, including 12,000 deaths.
The Iraqi prison scandal is just that – a scandal. It pales next to the years-long imprisonment of American servicemen in Vietnam, which included torture of enormous magnitude, sometimes daily.
Keep this situation in perspective: These so-called ''atrocities'' will not make Muslims hate us more. Punishing the wrongdoers will not make them hate us less.
The spectacle of gleeful Democrats seeking to use the inexcusable actions of some American service personnel to bring down an administration during war is sickening. Are they so bereft of simple common sense as not to realize we are in a fight for our very survival as a nation?
As our constitutional republic form of government crumbles around us, now is not the time for grandstanding politicians to harvest political capital from the misdeeds of the few, while soiling the reputations of the many.
It is time for Democrats to embrace an old concept, one they seem to have abandoned as their party has steadily slipped into a moral and ethical dung heap: Refrain from giving aid and comfort to the enemy and stand by your country.
They can do that even as they condemn the actions of those military miscreants, just as our president and those in his administration have done.
Then, they need to get this into their heads: Gen. Sherman did not say that war is heck. He said war is hell, and when there is war, bad things happen, sometimes done by those on the good side.
And surely even a Democrat can concede the moral superiority of a people who rise up in anger at prisoner abuse over those who dance in the streets at the sight of 3,000 innocent civilians dying in New York.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on May 25, 2004 02:18:12 AM new
O'Reilly agrees - 5-24:
Is enough on the Iraqi prisoner story? That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo."
Here's some inside TV stuff for you. From the very beginning of the Abu Ghraib (search) story, ratings for the cable news networks have actually gone down. Seems many Americans simply don't want to hear about the scandal over and over and over. And that's what's happening. Every day, the major newspapers and TV networks trot out new accusations, but most of them are along the same lines. Prisoners abused by American guards.
Well, we get it. We don't have to get it 24/7. As you know, "Talking Points" is appalled by the scandal and feels Americans who practice this kind of brutality should be prosecuted to the full extent. And that includes any higher-ups who condoned or ordered it.
The Factor will continue to report any new information that is not repetitive. However, we will not use the pictures or the videos because we believe this inflames world opinion and puts our troops in even more jeopardy. I believe The Factor is the only national TV news program that has not run the pictures of the abuse. And I stand by that decision.
Now we told you a few weeks ago that the Abu Ghraib situation would be used by Bush haters to harm the president, even in a time of war. And here's the proof of that.
Appearing on the Imus radio program today, "New York Times" columnist and Bush hater Frank Rich (search) says he believes the scandal is Bush's Watergate.
Now here's how Rich sees it. He believes the president is a bad man, who should be driven from office. So anything that can make that happen is fair game. Anything is possible, but it's hard to believe the Commander in Chief would micromanage a Baghdad prison. And Rich has no proof of anything remotely like that happening, but he'll throw it out there anyway. -- Mr. Responsible.
It's always important to know how your enemies think in life. Frank Rich and some other media people believe they are looking out for U.S. troops and all Americans if they can destroy President Bush. They honestly believe that. So nothing is too extreme in their analysis.
Of course, that kind of thinking is absurd. Americans are taking a beating worldwide because a few soldiers committed crimes and the U.S. media is channeling that beating.
Now I say let's provide some perspective here. Let's stop the hysteria. Partisan politics is no excuse for over-the-top repetitive reporting. To his credit, John Kerry has not exploited the Abu Ghraib situation. Maybe the partisan media should follow their candidate's lead.
posted on May 25, 2004 11:21:23 AM new
So, should the story no longer be pursued because it is not nice? Should reporters not search to find how deep the situaion went and how far up in the ranks previous knowledge existed because it offends your delicate senses?
Sorry boys and girls but I want the press digging in every nook and cranny because quite simply I have no faith in the honesty of our government.
If you want to assure the world this was an aberation and not sanctioned then throw the doors open. Banning all forms of photography as Runsfeld has done says you have something you are afraid of being seen.
While I agree that the publishing of more of the same photos is possibly detrimental and not neccessary, ignoring the situation is not going to make it go away and is not going to improve public image. Public image is improved only when full disclosure is made and fault is admitted. the shame is I think that we are going to see more charged soldiers plead guilty and serving embarrassingly low sentences under pressure to avoid testimony and disclosure of what was really going on.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 25, 2004 01:49:10 PM new
The press NEVER does anything out of the GOODNESS of their hearts or for public awareness. It is all for PROFIT to increase their circulation to make MORE money.
The press is directly responsible for the killing of Berg by airing those photos. The five people that killed him stated his death was in retaliation for the abuse shown in the photos.
So if the photos had not been released & published they would have had no reason to kill Berg.
Scream, cry & Zitch all your want, the facts speak for themselves.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on May 25, 2004 02:11:35 PM new
Should I order a snorkle for you to aid your breathing as you wallow in that level of bullsh*t Bear? The press was directly responsible? Let me guess., you blame rape victims too. The people directly responsible for the death of Berg are the horrendous little animals smiling and mugging for the camera while wearing the uniform that represents the US military and the people of our country. They are disgusting children who lacked the decency to treat others with basic human respect and common sense not to photograph themselves as they engaged in their undeniable demonstrations of complete lack of humanity.
The press is not to blame for shining a light on their inhumanity, they alone are to blame.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 26, 2004 08:01:31 AM new
I wish the Press would dig farther into Berg. There is something very fishy about his "coincidental" meeting and sharing an email address with the 19th hi-jacker.
He also had an Israeli passport. Berg may very well have been with Mossad.
posted on May 26, 2004 08:14:49 AM new
Yup, the Press should just let this go. It was just 7 or 8 enlisted people acting totally independently.
U.S. General Linked to Use of Dogs at Prison -Post
May 26, 2004 — WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army general sent by the Pentagon to bolster the collection of intelligence from prisoners at Abu Ghraib is said to have urged the use of guard dogs to frighten Iraqis detainees, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday, citing sworn testimony by the top U.S. intelligence officer at the prison.
Col. Thomas Pappas testified that the idea came from Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, then commander of the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and was implemented under a policy approved by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. military officer in Iraq, the newspaper reported.
Senior defense officials said on Tuesday that Sanchez was being replaced as the U.S. commander in Iraq. But they argued the change was not triggered by the Abu Ghraib Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
According to a transcript obtained by The Washington Post, Pappas told the Army investigator, Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba: "It was a technique I had personally discussed with General Miller, when he was here" visiting the prison.
"He said that they used military working dogs at Gitmo, and that they were effective in setting the atmosphere for which, you know, you could get information" from the prisoners, Pappas said in the testimony.
Miller, who assumed command of Abu Ghraib this month, denied through a spokesman that the conversation took place, the newspaper said.
"Miller never had a conversation with Colonel Pappas regarding the use of military dogs for interrogation purposes in Iraq. Further, military dogs were never used in interrogations at Guantanamo," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, spokesman for U.S. forces in Iraq, told the Post.
According to the Post, Pappas testified that interrogation plans involving the use of dogs, shackling, "making detainees strip down," or similar aggressive measures followed Sanchez's policy, but were often approved by Sanchez's deputy, Maj. Gen. Walter Wojdakowski, or by Pappas himself.
At least four photographs from Abu Ghraib obtained by The Washington Post show fearful prisoners near unmuzzled dogs.
posted on May 26, 2004 08:26:39 AM new
I consider myself a fiscal conservative, but I still dont understand why the republicans ran another Bush when the first was so bad. Does anyone think if John McCain were president today we would be in such a mess? Bush is going to lose, and you cant blame the media for it.
posted on May 26, 2004 09:12:04 PM new
Fenix, I stand by my words. The press's actions are the same as "Inciting to riot"
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on May 26, 2004 09:49:45 PM new
Dave, Apparently you are still recovering from the delusion that your thoughts mean anything to anyone who care.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
posted on May 26, 2004 10:51:40 PM new
dave said: You cannot comment on issues only attack those who you disagree with. Therefore I will treat you in kind.
That's the pot calling the kettle black.
You know dave, that's really quite funny. You rarely come in here to express an opinion on an issue.... most of your *own posts are attacks* to those YOU don't agree with.
You accuse others of doing exactly what you do. You've done the same thing with me many, many times.....no post on the issue just a personal attack or insult when I haven't attacked you.
posted on May 26, 2004 11:24:52 PM newIraqis snap up CDs of abuse images
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- George W. Bush has pledged to demolish Abu Ghraib prison, but the memory of the abuse scandal involving American troops is unlikely to fade quickly from the minds of most Iraqis.
Among the pirated copies of Hollywood movies "Rocky 4," "Titanic" and "Terminator," there is a new blockbuster on the market stalls: a CD containing graphic images of abuse at the notorious jail.
"American Army" sits prominently on the shelves inside a Baghdad street market where men gather in silence to watch.
A voice-over of an imam extols viewers to fight against "Americans, crusaders and Zionists."
One Baghdad resident, Sabri Nasser, said he had come to the market to look for the video. "Now that I have it, I can see it with my own eyes. I see the crimes committed by the Americans against the Iraqi people."
Hassan Hamoud Gati said he had sold more than 6,000 copies of the video, at 50 cents apiece.
To his customers, the pictures simply reinforce a common viewpoint. "At first we were very happy with the prospect of democracy and freedom but now look at what's come with this freedom and democracy," Hassan told CNN.
posted on May 27, 2004 08:28:49 AM new
I see moron number two is now coming to the defense of moron number one.
I generally post an opinion backed up by fact to have my ideology labeled as ultra liberal and have my intelligence questioned.
I assure you both are sound.
I do not post as frequently as I once did as I find many on this board so warped by right wing rhetoric that it is a waste of time doing so.
Occasionally a comment strikes me as so obtuse it must be answered if only to point out that the posters (generally bear or yourself) is an idiot goosetepping to the tune of the big idiot in Washington.
I understand you believe we should all be good American and play follow the leader, however our leader (I use the term loosely) is marching off a cliff into an abyss and logic dictates it is foolish to commit national suicide.
You can count on the fact that so long as you spew your hateful verbal diahrea advocating war and infringing on the rights of your fellow Americans I will be there to remind you that you are nothing more than an old bag of hot gas.
That is not an attack, that is the persona you have chosen for yourself. Why candy coat it.
posted on May 27, 2004 10:35:07 AM new
Thank you dave, for proving what I said is true.
I understand there are people like you who are lacking in self-esteem...and can only feel superior to others when they are putting them down. People who can't argue or debate their side of the issues always turn to insults and meanness - as you normally do.
posted on May 27, 2004 10:51:52 AM new
Dave, your a prime example of what is left after a lifetime of abusing mind altering drugs. So quit before what’s left of your brain turns to mush.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
Come on and speak you mind, it shouldn’t take but a second. You would do better in your postings by quoting your pet rock.
"The Secret Service has announced it is doubling its protection for John Kerry. You can understand why — with two positions on every issue, he has twice as many people mad at him." —Jay Leno
