posted on September 15, 2004 09:32:00 PM new
Rather Talks of Questions On Papers
Controversy About Bush and Guard 'Not About Me'
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 16, 2004; Page A01
CBS anchor Dan Rather acknowledged for the first time yesterday that there are serious questions about the authenticity of the documents he used to question President Bush's National Guard record last week on "60 Minutes."
"If the documents are not what we were led to believe, I'd like to break that story," Rather said in an interview last night. "Any time I'm wrong, I want to be right out front and say, 'Folks, this is what went wrong and how it went wrong.' "
Rather spoke after interviewing the secretary to Bush's former squadron commander, who told him that the memos attributed to her late boss are fake -- but that they reflect the commander's belief that Bush was receiving preferential treatment to escape some of his Guard commitments.
The former secretary, Marian Carr Knox, is the latest person to raise questions about the "60 Minutes" story, which Rather and top CBS officials still defend while vowing to investigate mounting questions about whether the 30-year-old documents used in the story were part of a hoax. Their shift in tone yesterday came as GOP critics as well as some media commentators demanded that the story be retracted and suggested that Rather should step down.
"This is not about me," Rather said before anchoring last night's newscast. "I recognize that those who didn't want the information out and tried to discredit the story are trying to make it about me, and I accept that."
For Rather, 72, it is an all-too-familiar role. In his CBS career, he has survived an impertinent exchange with President Richard M. Nixon during Watergate, a clandestine trek through the mountains of Afghanistan, an on-air confrontation with George H.W. Bush over Iran-contra and a much-debated sitdown with Saddam Hussein in Baghdad.
Now, on the final leg of a career launched by a Texas hurricane, Rather is trying to weather his biggest storm. And some of his closest friends and associates are concerned.
"I think this is very, very serious," said Bob Schieffer, CBS's chief Washington correspondent. "When Dan tells me these documents are not forgeries, I believe him. But somehow we've got to find a way to show people these documents are not forgeries." Some friends of Rather, whose contract runs until the end of 2006, are discussing whether he might be forced to make an early exit from CBS.
In her interview with Rather yesterday, Knox repeated her contention that the documents used by "60 Minutes" were bogus. Knox, 86, worked for Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian while he supervised Bush's unit in the early 1970s.
"I know that I didn't type them," Knox said of the Killian memos. "However, the information in there is correct," she said, adding that Killian and the other officers would "snicker about what [Bush] was getting away with."
Rather said he was "relieved and pleased" by Knox's comments that the disputed memos reflected Killian's view of the favorable treatment that Bush received in the military unit. But he said, "I take very seriously her belief that the documents are not authentic." If Knox is right, Rather said, the public "won't hear about it from a spokesman. They'll learn it from me."
But he also delivered a message to "our journalistic competitors," including The Washington Post and rival networks: "Instead of asking President Bush and his staff questions about what is true and not true about the president's military service, they ask me questions: 'How do you know this and that about the documents?' "
CBS News President Andrew Heyward defended the work that went into the Guard story. "I feel that we did a tremendous amount of reporting before the story went on the air or we wouldn't have put it on the air," Heyward said last night. "But we want to get to the bottom of these unresolved issues," including questions about the memos' typography, signatures and format. "There's such a ferocious debate about these documents."
Heyward said the account by Knox is "significant, which is why we're putting it on our prime-time program," "60 Minutes."
posted on September 15, 2004 10:13:09 PM new"I know that I didn't type them," Knox said of the Killian memos. "However, the information in there is correct," she said, adding that Killian and the other officers would "snicker about what [Bush] was getting away with."
Looks to me like the secretary who is calling the documents fake, is also verifying that the information in the documents is correct, and that's the most important part of this whole deal. Who cares what happens to Rather?
posted on September 15, 2004 10:31:46 PM new
It looks like the source and forgerer is a left wing wacko/disgruntled ex-Guardsman named Bill Burkett. It's hard to believe Rather would take this guy seriously. Dan Rather is toast.
posted on September 15, 2004 10:41:14 PM new
Taken from CBS Web site:
Last week, on 60 Minutes, we heard for the first time the full story from a Texas politician, former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes, who says he helped President George Bush get a highly coveted place in the National Guard.
60 Minutes also presented documents for the first time which indicated that once Mr. Bush was accepted into the Guard, he failed to live up to the requirements of his service, including following an order. And we also reported that the documents were written by Lt. Bush's National Guard squad commander, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who passed away in 1984.
In the past week, those documents have been subjected to extraordinary scrutiny and criticism.
Now, another voice - a credible voice - has entered the debate. Killian's secretary, Marian Carr Knox, describes herself as Killian's "right hand" during much of the 1970s.
She flew to New York Wednesday afternoon to tell 60 Minutes that she believes the documents we obtained are not authentic.
But there's yet another confusing twist to this story. She told Correspondent Dan Rather that she believes what the documents actually say is exactly as we reported.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knox is 86 years old, and completely comfortable in the eye of a storm. Now, she wants to set the record straight about the memos that CBS News obtained.
Knox says she didn’t type these memos, but she says she did type ones that contained the same information.
I know that I didn’t type them," says Knox. "However, the information in those is correct.”
Knox says the information in the four memos that CBS obtained is very familiar, but she doesn't believe the memos are authentic. She does, however, remember Killian being upset over Mr. Bush's failure to take a physical.
“Did or did not Lt. Bush take a physical as ordered by Col. Killian,” Rather asks Knox.
“The last time, no he didn’t,” says Knox. “It was a big no-no to not follow orders. And I can’t remember anyone refusing to. Now for instance, with the physical, every officer knew that before his birthday he was supposed to have that flying physical. Once in a while they might be late, but there would be a good excuse for it and let the commander know and try to set up a date for a make-up. If they did not take that physical, they were off flying status until they did.”
Did Knox ever hear Killian talk about this, or did he write memos about Bush not taking the physical?
“He was upset about it. That was one of the reasons why he wrote a memo directing him to go take the physical,” says Knox. “I’m going to say this, but it seems to me that Bush felt that he was above reproach.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knox remembers Lt. Bush well, and saw him often as he showed up for weekend training in 1971 and 1972.
“He was always very gentlemanly. He called me by the name of his father’s secretary. He was always apologizing about that,” recalls Knox. “He couldn’t remember my name. I felt that his parents must have been wonderful to have produced somebody as nice as that.”
But did Lt. Bush get into the National Guard on the basis of preferential treatment?
“I'm going to say that he did,” says Knox. “I feel that he did, because there were a lot other boys in there in the same way."
So what kind of officer was Lt. Bush?
“Bush seemed to be having a good time. He didn't seem to be having any problem with the other pilots,” says Knox. “But, his time there, it seemed that the other fellows were, I’m going to say this, sort of resentful of him because of his attitude … that he really didn’t have to go by the rules.”
Knox says that Killian started what she calls a "cover-your-back" file -- a personal file where he stored the memos about the problems with Mr. Bush's performance, his failure to take a physical, and the pressure Killian felt from upstairs.
She addressed one memo, and a reference to retired Gen. Staudt pushing for a positive officer training report on Lt. Bush.
"’Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it.’ Does that sound like Col. Killian? Is that the way it felt,” Rather asked Knox.
“That's absolutely the way he felt about that," says Knox.
She also talked about another memo which she doesn’t believe is authentic -- but she says the facts behind it are very real.
“It's just like a personal journal,” says Knox. “You write things. It was more or less that.”
“These memos were not memos that you typed, and you don’t think they came directly out of his files,” Rather asked Knox.
“The information, yes,” says Knox. “It seems that somebody did see those memos, and then tried to reproduce and maybe changed them enough so that he wouldn’t get in trouble over it.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knox says the fact that then-Lt. Bush was repeatedly missing drills was not lost on his fellow pilots.
“They missed him. It was sort of gossip around there, and they'd [the other officers would] snicker and so forth about what he was getting away with,” says Knox. “I guess there was even a resentment."
She told 60 Minutes again and again that she believed Lt. Bush refused a direct order to take a physical.
“Col. Killian’s son says that this isn’t true,” says Rather.
"He has no way of knowing whether that is true or not," says Knox.
In 1972, Knox says that, for Lt. Bush, working in a senate campaign became more important than flying for the Guard.
"I think it is plain and simple. Bush didn't think that he had to go by the rules that others did,” says Knox.
"He had this campaign to take care of, and that's what he was going to do -- and that's what he did do.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60 Minutes will continue to aggressively investigate the story of President Bush's service in the National Guard -- and the story of the documents and memos in Col. Killian's file.
Are those documents authentic, as experts consulted by CBS News continue to maintain? Or were they forgeries or re-creations, as Knox and many others believe?
We will keep an open mind and we will continue to report credible evidence and responsible points of view as we try to answer the questions raised about the authenticity of the documents.
Having said that, 60 Minutes feels that it's important to underscore this point: Those who have criticized aspects of our story have never criticized the major thrust of our report -- that George Bush received preferential treatment to get into the National Guard, and once accepted, failed to satisfy the requirements of his service. If we uncover any information to the contrary, that information will also be reported.
It seems to me that she is assuming more than she should. She never says anything that is definate. Also CBS never says how and why she came forward but remember.... She didn't vote for Bush in the last election and she is voting for Kerry this election
I can't believe that an 86 your old person can remember exactly what happened 33 years ago. If he was only there on the weekends that means she came in contact with him over a two year period only 104 times.
She didn't vote for Bush in the last election and is voting for Kerry this election. Is she a credible witness? or is she biased? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to answer that question.
posted on September 15, 2004 11:09:30 PM new
Pilots were, by regulation, required to take an annual flight physical in their birth month. Which, for Bush is July. Not May, as the inept forger has Jerry Killian ordering Bush to do (i.e. ordering Bush to violate regulations).
Bush didn't need any political help to get into the Guard because there were openings. The unit was 156 men understrength in mid 1968, as this Dallas Morning News article made clear in 1999.
Page 1
1 of 8 DOCUMENTS
Copyright 1999 The Dallas Morning News
The Dallas Morning News
July 4, 1999, Sunday THIRD EDITION
SECTION: NEWS; Pg. 1A
LENGTH: 1804 words
HEADLINE: Bush's stint in Guard scrutinized;
Flier avoided battle but favoritism denied
SOURCE: Austin Bureau of The Dallas Morning News
BYLINE: Pete Slover, George Kuempel
DATELINE: AUSTIN
BODY:
AUSTIN --With the Vietnam War raging, 21--year--old George W. Bush wanted to join the Texas Air National Guard
in 1968. He offered no aviation experience but cited his work as a ranch hand, oil field "roustabout" and sporting goods
salesman.
He passed the written test required for pilot trainees. Among the results: He showed below--average potential as a
would--be flier but scored high as a future leader.
Although Mr. Bush's unit in Texas had a waiting list for many spots, he was accepted because he was one of a handful
of applicants willing and qualified to spend more than a year in active training, and extra shifts after training, flying
single--seat F--102 fighter jets.
Once he was in, Guard officials sought to capitalize on his standing as the son of a congressman.
A 1970 Guard news release featured Mr. Bush as "one member of our younger generation who doesn't get his kicks
from pot or hashish or speed.
"On, he gets high, all right, but not from narcotics," it said.
"Fighters are it," Mr. Bush is quoted as saying. "I've always wanted to be a fighter pilot, and I wouldn't want to fly
anything else."
Such are the details that emerge from a review of Mr. Bush's service record by The Dallas Morning News, along with
interviews with Guard leaders, former colleagues and state officials familiar with that unit.
Mr. Bush, 52, now the Republican front--runner for president, has repeatedly denied suggestions by political rivals
that he received preferential treatment to get into the Guard -- widely seen as a haven from which enlistees were unlikely
to be shipped to Vietnam.
As evidence he wasn't dodging combat, Mr. Bush has pointed to his efforts to try to volunteer for a program that
rotated Guard pilots to Vietnam, although he wasn't called.
"There was no special treatment," he said.
Mr. Bush said he took flying seriously. "You will die in your airplane if you didn't practice, and I wasn't interested in
dying," he said.
Records provided to The News by Tom Hail, a historian for the Texas Air National Guard, show that the unit Mr.
Bush signed up for was not filled. In mid--1968, the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group, based in Houston, had 156 openings
Page 2
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, July 4, 1999
among its authorized staff of 925 military personnel.
Of those, 26 openings were for officer slots, such as that filled by Mr. Bush, and 130 were for enlisted men and
women. Also, several former Air Force pilots who served in the unit said that they were recruited from elsewhere to fly
for the Texas Guard.
Officers who supervised Mr. Bush and approved his admission to the Guard said they were never contacted by anyone
on Mr. Bush's behalf.
"He didn't have any strings pulled, because there weren't any strings to pull," said Leroy Thompson of Brownwood,
who commanded the squadron that kept the waiting list for the guard at Ellington Air Force Base. "Our practices were
under incredible scrutiny then. It was a very ticklish time."
Fellow members of the Bush unit said they knew of his background.
U.S. Rep. George Bush was at his son's side when he was made an officer in the Guard. The elder Mr. Bush, a former
World War II pilot, later spoke at his son's graduation from flight school.
David Hanifl of La Crescent, Minn., an Air Force regular who went through pilot training in Georgia with George W.
Bush, said the flight instructors were eager to fly with the Texan.
"He didn't get any preferential treatment, but some of the instructors liked the idea of scheduling him to fly with them
because of his connections," he said.
Mr. Hanifl said it was somewhat unusual for a Guardsman to be included in the flight class with Air Force regulars.
"You had to have clout to get that type of assignment," he said. He added that Mr. Bush was a good pilot and did not
seek any favors.
Also getting into the Bush unit in 1968 was Lloyd Bentsen III, a recent graduate of Stanford University business
school whose father was a former congressman later elected Democratic U.S. senator from Texas.
The waiting list
According to several former officers, the openings in the unit were filled from a waiting list kept in the base safe of
Rufus G. Martin, then an Air National Guard personnel officer.
In a recent interview, Mr. Martin of San Antonio said the list was kept on computer and in a bound volume, which
was periodically inspected by outside agencies to make sure the list was kept properly.
Mr. Bush said he sought the Guard position on his own, before graduating from Yale University in 1968. He personally
met with Col. Walter B. Staudt, commander of the 147th group.
In an interview, Mr. Bush said he walked into Col. Staudt's Houston office and told him he wanted to be a fighter pilot.
"He told me they were looking for pilots," Mr. Bush said. He said he was told that there were five or six flying slots
available, and he got one of them.
While Guard slots generally were coveted, pilot positions required superior education, physical fitness and the
willingness to spend more than a year in full--time training.
"If somebody like that came along, you'd snatch them up," said the former commander, who retired as a general. "He
took no advantage. It wouldn't have made any difference whether his daddy was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff."
Bobby Hodges, the group's operations officer, and others familiar with Guard rules said Mr. Bush made it to the top
of the short list of candidates who could pass both the written officer test and a rigorous flight physical to qualify for the
three to four annual pilot training "quotas" allotted to the unit.
Mr. Hodges and Gen. Staudt are the two surviving members of the military panel that reviewed and approved Mr.
Bush's officer commission.
Most of those wanting to get into the Guard at that time, they said, didn't want to put in the full year of active service
that was required to become a pilot.
Pilot aptitude test
Page 3
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, July 4, 1999
Records from his military file show that in January 1968, after inquiring about Guard admission, Mr. Bush went to an
Air Force recruiting office near Yale, where he took and passed the test required by the Air Force for pilot trainees. His
score on the pilot aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile, the lowest allowed for would--be
fliers.
Ralph J. Ianuzzi, a newly minted Air Force captain, supervised administration of the test and signed Mr. Bush's score
sheet, an event of which he had no recollection.
The pilot portion of the exam included tasks such as identifying the angle of a plane in flight after being shown the
view from the cockpit and figuring out which way a gear in a machine would turn in response to another gear's being
turned.
"That score for pilot seems low. I made that, and I'm dyslexic," Mr. Ianuzzi, a retired FBI agent who never earned his
wings but said it was significant that Mr. Bush did. "He passed the most important test. He flew the plane."
On the "officer quality section," designed to measure intangible traits such as leadership, Mr. Bush scored better than
95 percent of those taking the test.
It's impossible to compare Mr. Bush's score on the test to scores of other pilot candidates, because Air Force historians
say no records survive of average scores for those accepted to pilot training.
Pilot training
After completing basic training in San Antonio in August 1968, he helped out aircraft mechanics at Ellington until
that November, when a pilot--training slot came open.
He was promoted to second lieutenant and began a 13--month pilot training program at Moody Air Force Base, in
Georgia.
He was the only Guardsman among the 70 or so officers from other branches of the military who began the training.
Under the terms of his contract with the military, if Mr. Bush had failed to complete pilot school, he would have been
required to serve the Guard in some other capacity, to enter the draft, or to enlist in another branch of the military.
After passing flight training, Mr. Bush was schooled for several more months at Ellington, and in March 1970 began
flying "alerts," the name used to describe the 147th's mission of guarding gulf coast borders against foreign attack.
In those days, just five years after the Cuban missile crisis, the 147th kept at least two fighters ready to scramble,
round--the--clock, guarding Texas oil fields and refineries against airstrikes.
"It's kind of a non--threatening way to do your military, get paid well for some long shifts, and feel good about your
own involvement," said Douglas W. Solberg, now an airline pilot, offering his reasons for joining the 147th and serving
with Mr. Bush after an Air Force flying stint. "It was a cushy way to be a patriot."
A former non--commissioned officer who worked on planes and supervised other ground crews at Ellington said Mr.
Bush was not a silver--spoon snob or elitist, unlike some former Air Force fliers.
"I remember him coming down, kicking the tires, washing the windows, whatever," said Joe H. Briggs, now of
Houston. "I'm probably one of the few people around who'll admit I voted for Clinton. But I'll pull for this guy for
president."
No overseas duty
Mr. Bush's application for the Guard included a box to be checked specifying whether he did or did not volunteer for
overseas duty. His includes a check mark in the box not wanting to volunteer for such an assignment.
But several personnel officers said that part of the application for domestic Guard units routinely would be filled out
that way by a clerk typist, then given to the applicant to sign.
Mr. Bush has said that he signed up for but lacked the number of flying hours to participate in a program called the
Palace Alert, which eventually rotated nine pilots from his unit into duty in Southeast Asia from 1969 to 1970.
His signup and willingness to participate was confirmed by several of his colleagues and superiors, who remembered
the effort as brash but admirable.
Page 4
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS, July 4, 1999
"The more experienced pilots were shaking their heads, saying, "He doesn't even know where to park the planes,' "
said Albert C. Lloyd, then head of personnel for the Texas Air National Guard.
Some attention has also focused on Mr. Bush's departure from the service. Under his original oath, he was obligated to
serve in the Guard until May 1974. Instead, he was allowed to leave in October 1973 to attend Harvard Business School.
Former Guard officials and members of Mr. Bush's unit said that release, seven months early, was not unusual for the
Guard. Mr. Bush's unit was changing airplanes at the time, from the single--seat F--102 to the dual--seat F--101. They said
it made little sense to retrain him for just a few months' service, and letting him go freed spots for the Guard to recruit F--
101 pilots from the Air Force and elsewhere.
GRAPHIC: PHOTO(S): (Agence France--Presse file photo) U.S. Rep. George Bush pinned bars on son George W. as he
became a second lieutenant in the Texas Air National Guard.
LOAD--DATE: July 8, 1999
posted on September 16, 2004 06:05:46 AM new
profe, you just made boil down to "she said, he said" that is irrelevent... nothing important at all without the documents... betting if she supported President Bush that wouldn't of been her answer...
posted on September 16, 2004 07:42:56 AM new
Dan Rather's credibility is in the toliet. He's toast. That Burkett guy is now thought to be the one who gave these 'false' documents to CBS.
Their ratings have been very low...but now with this diversion their ratings have improved. LOL
Think C-BS would have put anything from the Swift Boat Vets out like they did this story without having checked it out more throughly? All one has to do is look how differently the SBVT documentation was handled by rather[biased] and how these false documents have been defended to see their, continuing but escalating, bias.
Anything which supports their campaign for kerry doesn't need to be throughly checked out....anything that supports President Bush has to have 'God's' signature on it before they'll even mention it. LOL They've become a huge joke and an untrustworthy 'news' source now. And they did it all to themselves.
But the good news is....Unfit For Command by the Swift Boat Vets is STILL #1 on the NYT best seller list. Four weeks in a row now.
Also wanted to mention that as each of their so-called witnesses have stated they were either fooled by CBS and believe the documents were forged....they keeping finding NEW people to support the unsupportable.
Kinko's, A Better Way to Forge?
<http://ratherbiased.com/news/content/view/267/2> --
Kinko's may indeed be the better way to office, but is it also the better way to forge? Matt Drudge has the following text up on his site, accompanied with the requisite siren:
"CBS Guard Documents Traced to Texas Kinko's...
"WASH POST: Documents allegedly written by deceased officer that raised questions about Bush's service with Texas National Guard bore markings showing they had been faxed to CBS News from a Kinko's copy shop in Abilene, Texas... Developing..."
Abilene is about 20 miles away (click here for map) away from Baird, Texas, the home of Bill Burkett, a former Texas National Guard member whom Newsweek magazine reported may have been CBS's source. Burkett is known to have a grudge against George W. Bush, AH - MOTIVE the former governor of his state.
CBS has confirmed that the original producer of its Sept. 8 piece, Mary Mapes, was dispatched to central Texas to interview Burkett, who has said that Bush "would do anything to be 'king' of America."
No word on if the Abilene Kinko's has an IBM Selectric Composer or an Executive typewriter. According to the company's web site, its Abilene location is the closest to Baird, Texas.
CBS has said that its documents came from "an unimpeachable source."
Update: Post article is up:
"Earlier this year, Burkett gave interviews to numerous news outlets, including The Washington Post, alleging corruption and malfeasance at the top of the Texas National Guard, many of which have never been substantiated. He has also been a named source for several reports by USA Today, which reported Monday that it had independently obtained copies of the disputed memos soon after the broadcast. [...]
"Asked what role Burkett may have played in CBS's reporting of the report, [CBS News president Andrew] Heyward said: 'I'm not going to get into any discussion of who the sources are.' [...]
"Author James Moore, who relied on Burkett as a primary source for a book attacking Bush as having wriggled out of his Guard service, said in an interview yesterday that he did not think Burkett provided the memos to CBS. "His life is complicated enough already, and I don't why he would make further complications for himself,' Moore said."
Conservative radio talker Kevin McCullough reports that Burkett has a standing account at the Abilene Kinko's and was observed in the store just last week by an employee.
(See online for links to all of the articles cited in this item.)
GOP Congressmen Urge CBS To Reveal Sources <http://ratherbiased.com/news/content/view/258/2> --The pressure continues to mount on CBS to be more transparent about the process whereby it obtained disputed documents it insists were written by a former military commander of President George W. Bush.
Thirty-nine Republican congressmen have co-signed a letter written by the GOP Majority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) which urges CBS to retract its story. The letter also criticizes the network for being hypocritical in its respone to charges that CBS used forged documents.
"To date, CBS's response to the specific and devastating criticisms of the accuracy of its reporting has been to question the motives of its critics, to offer half-truths in its own defense, to refuse to disclose crucial evidence, and to circle the wagons."
Speaking to CNN, Blunt criticized CBS's sourcing methods.
"Clearly, their sources aren't what they need to be or they're not willing to reveal even the nature of who their sources are. Their experts don't really agree that these documents any longer are what they were purported to be. It's hard for me to believe and a number of my colleagues share this concern, an organization with a long and distinguished history in journalism in the past would be willing to stand by this story when virtually everybody else has questions about it."
Rather Airs Knox Interview
<http://ratherbiased.com/news/content/view/263/2> --Setting the stage for a CBS backtrack, Dan Rather and CBS aired an interview with Marion Knox, the former secretary of Lt. Col. Jerry Killian. She repeated her earlier statements that the CBS documents were not authentic but that they were not inaccurate.
Rather continued to insist CBS's reporting was accurate but for the first time expressed doubts that the disputed documents may not be authentic.
---------
posted on September 16, 2004 09:01:18 AM new
Rather was in on this and it was all just a phoney set up to get the heat off Bush's dismal military record.
Rather did the same favor for the Bush 41 campaign.
posted on September 16, 2004 09:15:49 AM new
Here's the reasons that I believe this woman can not be trusted or believed, she contradicted herself several times in the Dan Blather interview that Libra63 posted.
I’m going to say this, but it seems to me that Bush felt that he was above reproach.
He was always very gentlemanly. He called me by the name of his father’s secretary. He was always apologizing about that, recalls Knox. “He couldn’t remember my name. I felt that his parents must have been wonderful to have produced somebody as nice as that
In one statement she thinks of him as being above reproach and in another statement she thinks he is as nice as that
Then a little further on in the interview she said this;
Bush seemed to be having a good time. He didn't seem to be having any problem with the other pilots, says Knox. But, his time there, it seemed that the other fellows were, I’m going to say this, sort of resentful of him because of his attitude … that he really didn’t have to go by the rules.
I saw this interview and when she made the above statement she kinda stammered and had a sort of stunned look on her face because I think she realised the contradiction in the statement.
On the one hand he didn't have any problem with the other pilots while on the other hand there was a problem because of the other pilots resentment towards him.
When someone resents you, you know it, especially in a military unit where everyone works as a team and depends on each other.
posted on September 16, 2004 10:12:55 AM new
She's voting for kerry. If she had said the same things and was voting for President Bush....her 30+ year recollection [at her age] might have more standing in my eyes.
This whole thing was a set-up to re-hash Bush's service. To do a tit-for-tat on what the SBVTs did to kerry. But it's not working and C-BS is the laughing stock of the whole media and desperately working to not lose the few viewers they have. lol
President Bush received an honorable discharge and he has proven his trustworthness from his actions in the past [almost] four years. The people know he can be trusted to defend this nation....because he has. kerry on the other hand is an unknown who's showing the voters he can't make up his mind where he stands on this issue. C-BS supports kerry's election...but has totally sacrificed their credibility by these forged documents.
posted on September 16, 2004 10:39:23 AM new
CBS CONCERN OVER VIEWERSHIP PLUNGE; RATHER RATINGS FADE IN MAJOR MARKETS
CBS executives on both coasts have become concerned in recent days that Dan Rather's EVENING NEWS broadcast has plunged in the ratings since the anchor presented questionable documents about Bush's National Guard service.
[b]NIELSEN numbers released this week show Rather fading and trailing his rivals in every Top 10 city, other than San Francisco, with audience margins in some cities running more than 6 to 1 against CBS!
Executives fear many voters inclined to vote for Bush are now switching off Rather.
"The audience appears to [be] polarized," a top CBS source said from LOS ANGELES on Thursday. "Rightly or wrongly, we're being perceived as 'anti-Bush,' which I do not think is fair to Dan, who is a fine journalist... of course we do not like to see the ratings coming back the way they are this week."
In Philadelphia, the nation's #4 market, Rather pulled a 2.6 rating/5 share on Tuesday night against ABC's 13.3 rating/23 share and NBC's 4.0/7.
In Chicago, Rather hit a 2.3/5 to ABC's 9.2/20.
CBS trailed ABC by more than 2 to 1 in Los Angeles.
And in the nation's top market, New York, Rather finished not only behind NBC NIGHTLY NEWS and ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT -- but also pulled less audience than reruns of the SIMPSONS, WILL & GRACE and KING OF QUEENS.
Rather finished dead last in New York during the 6:30 pm timeslot among all broadcast channels tracked by NIELSEN on Tuesday.
posted on September 16, 2004 07:12:21 PM new
Well this could get interesting.
Seems the documents in question were faxed from a kinkos in Texas.
And now the officer's secretary has come forward and said she in fact did type up memos that stated the same facts as the supposed forged memos.
BUT -- in what manner were the documents prepared to be faxed ? If the documents were scanned with character recognition software, that would explain why the modern fonts etc were present. Anyone who has used charcter recognition software with their scanner knows this.
If these documents were copied anywhere along the line with charcter recognition software, that would explain the modern characters etc..
posted on September 17, 2004 11:41:08 AM new
In a exerpt from another article:
She said she typed all of Killian's memoranda and office letters during the time Bush served under him in the early 1970s.
Knox said the subject matter in the documents does, however, reflect sentiments Killian expressed to her at the time.
"I did not type those, no, but the information in them is correct," she said........
......Last week, Knox said she had no firsthand knowledge of Bush's time with the Texas Air National Guard, although she did recall a culture of special treatment for the sons of prominent people, such as Bush and others.
This is interesting. If you read the article carefully, what you realize is that she isn't speaking about George Bush specifically. She's speaking about "a culture of special treatment" rather than Bush specifically, and she says she has no specific knowledge of any documents related to Bush.
So, despite the appearance of supporting the CBS memo, in reality she does not do so, but she confirms that the documents are forged. This is a very slender thread for CBS to hold on to, but I have no doubt that they will. At this point, what else can they do? They've painted themselves into a corner where there's no way out.
posted on September 17, 2004 08:34:57 PM new
twelvetoes, Your post is the 1st time I heard a republican admit that people will change the facts for Bush. WOW maybe you are starting to feel the power of truth.
posted on September 20, 2004 07:37:31 PM new
You would think that when Dan Rather saw that "Clipit" guy in the upper right corner of the bogus document that he might have thought something was going on!!!
"Clipit" wasn't around back in the 1970's
posted on September 20, 2004 08:07:30 PM new
"However, the information in there is correct," she said, adding that Killian and the other officers would "snicker about what [Bush] was getting away with."
Doesn't change the fact that bushy was too drunk, too coked up, and too yellow to fight for his country. What a slimebag.
Also : at least Rather can admit a mistake, something bush is incapable of...it takes a backbone.
[ edited by crowfarm on Sep 20, 2004 08:10 PM ]
[ edited by crowfarm on Sep 20, 2004 08:22 PM ]
posted on September 20, 2004 08:44:27 PM new
No mistake...a set-up and doing anything he could to discredit President Bush....like has been rather's history. It's like he's being paid from the RNC directly.
Hope their ratings drop even further and that rather[biased] is fired. It took almost every other news media saying they were false before CBS would re-look into it. They should have looked into it BEFORE they tried to smear this President. But it's a pattern with dems.....don't admit the truth until there's no way it can be denied any longer. Then come up with some excuse as to why your bias shouldn't be seen by everyone who's fair and honest.
posted on September 20, 2004 08:45:30 PM new
......Last week, Knox said she had no firsthand knowledge of Bush's time with the Texas Air National Guard, although she did recall a culture of special treatment for the sons of prominent people, such as Bush and others.
This is interesting. If you read the article carefully, what you realize is that she isn't speaking about George Bush specifically. She's speaking about "a culture of special treatment" rather than Bush specifically, and she says she has no specific knowledge of any documents related to Bush.
Rather admitted his mistake only after he was caught and for no other reason
Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on September 20, 2004 10:08:02 PM new
What is irritating me is that Rather interviewed Burkitt on the nightly news tonight although I didn't see it. I think they need to interview him on 60 minutes so that the world could see just like they did the documents and this Mrs. Killian.
I understand CBS has a 3% rating. If this was you and I and we did something like this our job would be toast.
posted on September 20, 2004 11:09:08 PM new
The information is not correct. From 1968 to 1973 President Bush earned 954 points In the Guard during 5.4 of service. For the full 6yrs The minimum requirement was 300 points. When he went in the guard to become a pilot. Only the enlisted ranks were closed. The open for pilots was high.
As for the flight physical I was a year over due no big thing.
Bush requested an early out and was given a honorable discharge because of the number of points he had..
The problem with documents now. It may go to the top of National Democrat Committee and operation favorite son.Read U.S.A. Today,Tuesday....
posted on September 21, 2004 06:58:17 AM new
I agree Libra....should be presented on the 60 Minutes where the false accusation was made.
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Thanks for that info on the 'point' system, Fred. It's always nice when someone who knows what their talking about shares how the wheels turn in the different military branches.
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And here's a USAToday article that I read. Maybe this is the one you're referring to?
Confirms what ebayauctionguy said about their 'source', Burkett. Now he's been proven a liar about who he got the documents from, in that he lied about that too.
Yea, real trustworthy source See-BS used to smear the President....and it may go higher in the DNC as suggested. I'd love it if it went straight to Terry McAllife's hands. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Just read that the Bush campaign MAY request that CBS not be involved in the October debate. ..It hasn't been confirmed nor decided on yet...but would be a well deserved 'slap in the face' to See-BS if the President does decide they shouldn't play any part in it.
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These are the headlines on the Drudge Report this morning.
CBS DEEPLY REGRETS
BUSH OFFICIALS WANT CBSNEWS MODERATOR OFF DEBATE
CBS COORDINATED BUSH BASH WITH KERRY CAMPAIGN; Aide Talked to Retired Guard Officer...
BURKETT: 'Lucy Ramirez' source of fake docs; 'I may have been a patsy'...
Pinkerton: As Rather goes, so goes network news...
posted on September 21, 2004 11:41:02 AM newActually, the clipit guy wasn't on the documents given to CBS...
OBVIOUSLY Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
