stockticker
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posted on October 28, 2000 07:38:03 AM new
I haven't heard anything more about PayPal's going international "by Halloween" since PayPalDamon posted this date about a month ago. I was wondering if this was still the target date.
Irene
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uaru
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posted on October 28, 2000 08:03:49 AM new
I haven't heard anything, but this is what they've got on their web site still.
Entry Date: October 2, 2000
Effective Date: October 31, 2000
PayPal plans to introduce the ability to send money to, and receive money from, international users in 26 countries by Halloween. There will be no additional fees for domestic customers to send or receive international payments.
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yisgood
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posted on October 28, 2000 07:48:13 PM new
Considering PP's poor support and refusal to do anything to prevent fraud (simply sendingthe buyer's name and address to the seller would have cut out 95% of the fraud), can you imagine how many sellers will get ripped off, have their PP accounts frozen, etc once international gets here?
Delivery confirmation doesnt work to other countries. Anything traceable costs a fortune and often takes months if you get the proof back at all. There are no authorities I know who will help you recover from a foreign buyer. So unless you enjoy mailing free packages to foreign buyers, I wouldn't touch this one with a 10,000 mile pole.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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stockticker
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posted on October 28, 2000 08:08:33 PM new
Yisgood:
I am a Canadian seller. Most of my buyers are American although I do have the occasional seller from overseas. None of my customers are rip-off artists. I don't insure packages because I sell low priced items where I usually have multiples in inventory and registered mail would be expensive. It if a customer says he/she doesn't receive an item, I will mail them another. It happens very, very rarely.
I've been on eBay for the last couple of years and never had anyone ask if I accepted PayPal. However, I just started listing on volume on Yahoo this week and already have had 3 queries from winners about whether I would accept PayPal even though I say check or money order only in my TOS.
Irene
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vargas
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posted on October 28, 2000 08:20:02 PM new
Be aware that PayPal's buyer/seller protection guarantees will NOT extend to international transactions.
Damon makes this clear in a post on the PayPal board at OTWA.
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stockticker
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posted on October 28, 2000 08:45:17 PM new
Vargas: How is that different from the lack of protection I now have with the possibility of bounced checks?
Irene
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vargas
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posted on October 28, 2000 09:20:37 PM new
stockticker:
Not trying to be argumentative, but I'm afraid I don't see your point.
Do you take personal checks on international transactions?
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stockticker
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posted on October 28, 2000 10:03:12 PM new
Vargas:
Yes I take international checks. I don't wait until they clear before shipping either as that process can take up to 5 weeks. I have had only 2 bounced checks in my two years in selling on eBay. Both buyers quickly sent replacement payments.
Irene
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tc61380
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posted on October 28, 2000 11:42:30 PM new
Hey Irene,
HOw does that work? Do your bidders just use their own checks in their currency or what? Doesn't your bank charge for cashing international checks?
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stockticker
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posted on October 29, 2000 12:45:07 AM new
I have a U.S. dollar bank account with my Canadian bank. I simply deposit the U.S. dollar checks in the account. The bank charges are approximately the same as they are for depositing Canadian dollar checks into my Canadian dollar account.
As far as other currencies are concerned, I've deposited pound sterling checks into my Canadian dollar account. The bank simply converts the amount to Canadian dollar equivalent and doesn't charge me any special fees for doing that. I gather that this would also be the way other currencies would be handled.
The banking system here in Canada is quite different than the U.S. We don't really have small banks. Our 5 major banks are huge, operate from coast to coast and have operations in the U.S. and overseas.
My main reason for being interested in PayPal is to speed up shipment. Our Canadian postal system is very slow compared to the U.S. We don't even have Saturday home delivery. Sometimes it takes two weeks or even more for payments to reach me via snail mail.
Irene
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vargas
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posted on October 29, 2000 07:32:38 AM new
Well then Irene, we're talking apples and oranges here. I'm in the U.S., where banks charge a fortune to cash checks written in another currency. So I don't have to worry about bounced international checks. No one sends them to me.
Most of my international buyers use Bidpay, Amazon Payments or Billpoint. The few Canadian buyers I have use international postal money orders or Billpoint.
I'm glad to have PayPal off of my auctions before it goes international. Too much potential for fraud.
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stockticker
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posted on October 29, 2000 08:19:11 AM new
Vargas:
It's simple - if you want PayPal for domestic transactions ONLY, just say so in your TOS. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water and reject PayPal simply because it is going international.
Irene
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 29, 2000 09:51:54 AM new
It's simple - if you want PayPal for domestic transactions ONLY, just say so in your TOS. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water and reject PayPal simply because it is going international.
There is a problem with this solution. The customer can send the payment via PayPal anyway against your will. You have no way to refuse the transaction so it automatically goes into your account whether you like it or not. Then if it turns out that the credit card was indeed fraudulent, it's PayPal account freezing time. If you send the payment back to the buyer with PayPal, you are still out the transaction fees that PayPal charged and they do not do refunds.
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stockticker
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posted on October 29, 2000 10:04:36 AM new
Abingdoncomputers:
Do you have any statistics to back up your assumptions that Canadians are more likely to use fraudulent credit cards than Americans are?
Won't PayPal freeze the account if an AMERICAN uses a a fraudulent credit card?
Irene
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 29, 2000 10:17:43 AM new
stockticker:
I wasn't referring specifically to Canadians. I have had several Canadian customers and have never had a bad transaction with them. I went back and re-read my post to try to see where I might have referenced Canada. I couldn't find it. Please help me out by pointing it out to me.
Now that we have that cleared up, when PayPal goes international the rate of fraud will increase dramatically. The frauds will also be harder to track down and prosecute when the fraudster resides in one of those 26 other countries.
My point in my last post about not being able to refuse a PayPal payment from an international customer was simply to point out that you can't refuse a PayPal payment from ANYONE. If you have a PayPal account and another person knows the email address associated with that account, they can send you a PayPal payment. End of story.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 29, 2000 10:19:58 AM new
Won't PayPal freeze the account if an AMERICAN uses a a fraudulent credit card?
Certainly. This is exactly my point. With all of the trouble that sellers have had with accounts being frozen with US transactions, it's going to be a nightmare after Halloween.
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Oct 29, 2000 10:38 AM ]
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vargas
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posted on October 29, 2000 10:55:57 AM new
"It's simple - if you want PayPal for domestic transactions ONLY, just say so in your TOS. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water and reject PayPal simply because it is going international."
Actually, I don't want PayPal for any auction transactions, domestic or international... at least not until PayPal gets it's TOS in order and quits letting US write the terms for it after the fact.
There are fee-based options that are far more professionally run. The cost difference is so miniscule, my peace of mind is well worth the extra pennies the other options cost.
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AnonymousCoward
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posted on October 30, 2000 08:58:42 PM new
Better wait until PayPal improves their business before trying the international functionality.
Billpoint is going to allow non-ebay transaction in early November. The biggest advantage with Billpoint is this statement from their Canadian help page.
...current Canadian banking law prohibits non-recurring electronic debits from consumer checking accounts.
http://www.billpoint.com/help/sellerguide/canadafaq.html
I believe this means Billpoint will not debit your bank account, no matter what. The only way they can charge is with their Billpoint account or your credit card. Has anyone heard of a Billpoint account being frozen?
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stockticker
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posted on October 30, 2000 10:51:24 PM new
AnonymousCoward:
Canadian bank law would apply to PayPal as well as Billpoint as the debit would occur in Canadian jurisdiction.
[ edited by stockticker on Oct 30, 2000 10:52 PM ]
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