posted on June 25, 2001 02:23:25 PM new
I transferred $6,000 from my local bank account to PayPal, intending to transfer it to a Schwab account that I was in the process of setting up. Schwab was delayed in activating my account, so they refused PayPal's trial deposit of a few cents. PayPal then "restricted" my account and wouldn't let me transfer the money back to my undisputed local bank account, or have any other access to the money. First, there were no allegations of illegal activity and there was never any question about the validity of my local bank account (and PayPal was happy to accept the deposit from that bank, just not the withdrawal), so this never should have happened. But PayPal has dodged all of my attempts to clear up their mistake.
Evidently, PayPal thinks that my identity is somehow questionable because Schwab rejected their miniscule deposit on that day. I have emailed them literally dozens of times (have received dozens of automatic replies and a few formletters), have sent copies of my driver's license, bank statements, bank deposit forms, and voided checks by *certified* mail (with proof of delivery) to their headquarters in both California and Nebraska. After three weeks of being ignored (?sorry, we must reject your appeal?), it has become clear that nothing will satisfy them. They clearly have no intent to return my $6,000 without a court order, though they have no legal right to hold my earned money against my will.
Though I have documented my identity exhaustively, PayPal insists that I must for some reason provide a paper account statement for my Schwab account (even though I asked them to forget the Schwab account and just transfer my funds back to my undisputed local bank account or mail me a check). Unfortunately, Schwab issues me electronic statements (I have already sent PayPal screenshots of my Schwab account), and my first electronic statement won't be issued until next month anyway. For this reason, my Schwab broker (who is exasperated with PayPal?s intransigence) sent a personal fax to PayPal last week, testifying that my account is valid and now active, and explaining why Schwab had rejected the tiny deposit originally. Nothing helps. ?Sorry, we must reject your appeal until you send the requested documents.? They received the documents at both locations, but have not acknowledged them.
I have explained to PayPal that they leave me with no choice but to take them to court (already reported them to the Better Business Bureau) and publicize their illegal practices broadly. I?m thinking of writing an AP press release about this explosion of reports of similar illegal practices by PayPal (related to similar account mixups, not fraudulent sales), and the impending class action lawsuits, so feel free to share some stories in response to this message.
Unfortunately, I can?t afford to wait for the lawsuit to settle, because I need the funds to close on a house purchase (hear my damages growing??). So I may just shell out for a plane ticket down to Palo Alto, and march in with my birth certificate, driver?s license, auto title, social security card, paystub, local bank statement, and another letter from Schwab explaining why they are unable to print an account statement. I wonder if Thiel will hear my ?appeal? personally if I bring some reporters with me.
posted on June 25, 2001 03:58:44 PM new
Let's make sure we have this straight.
You're closing on a house, but in the meantime, you decide to speculate in the stock market. Rather than write Schwab a check, you move your money to PayPal and then try to immediately move it to Schwab, but you hadn't got the Schwab account opened by then.
Please feel free to contact me at [email protected] with the account email address. The account review department is probably waiting on documentation from you (to prove the bank account is yours) to remove the restriction.
posted on June 25, 2001 04:55:41 PM new
roofguy-
Although I can't see how your question is relevant, I'll respond.
I was temporarily holding my long-term savings in PayPal rather than my local checking account because PayPal paid interest and allowed convenient electronic transfers. The Schwab account offered higher interest, but took a long time to set up electronic deposits. I didn't plan to do any stock market speculation; it was just a better place to hold my balance while I searched for a house.
Now I would like to buy a property, but I can't even make an offer because PayPal has frozen on my funds for 3 weeks so far (despite my sending the requested documentation by certified mail to both corporate locations), and I have no indication of how long this will last. From messages I read on this board, it seems that PayPal has a record of stalling for several months. If a personal fax from Schwab explaining why they rejected the few cents from PayPal isn't enough to allay PayPal's "suspicion," I don't know what will be.
I will contact Damon with my problem and report back here with the outcome, good or bad.
posted on June 25, 2001 07:11:01 PM new
Damon fixed this in a few minutes.
Lots of praise to Damon for recovering my account (hopefully before the last house in my neighborhood was sold).
It's surprising that 3 weeks of mailing materials and threatening lawsuits never got me beyond the PayPal formletters, but a couple e-mails to a human being fixed the mixup right away. Wish I hadn't wasted all that time dealing with PayPal's regular customer service.
Hope they pay this Damon well, and with real paper checks.
posted on June 25, 2001 09:45:57 PM new
Damon never explains the disconnection between:
A situation like the above, where PayPal is cruely insistent on a litany of never-ending requests for "security" reasons...
...and then a customer comes here, tells the whole saga, emails Damon and then several minutes later the problem is fixed.
How can that be possible? Suddenly, all the documents sent appeared? The documents weren't needed? The email to Damon magically proved your identity, ownership of bank accounts, etc...
What was it that PayPal told you that you did wrong, which resulted in your account being restricted?
Also, did you receive any explanation as to the reason for PayPal's customer service department's inability to handle this matter, even after your numerous email attempts to get their attention?
If you could post the details, it might help someone else avoid the same fate.
loggia-
How can that be possible?
It's easier to get action when PayPal knows that people are watching.
posted on June 25, 2001 10:17:47 PM new
Hi loggia and mrpotatoheadd --
Actually, I hadn't done anything wrong. Schwab was delayed in setting up my new account, so they rejected the trial deposit of a few cents from PayPal. PayPal said this was suspicious of fraud and froze my account. This is apparently PayPal's knee-jerk response to any sort of mishap (so type carefully!). I mailed their requested documents to Nebraska and California (along with a lot of lawsuit threats) and had Schwab fax them an explanation for why they had rejected the deposit, but I never got past the formletters.
Damon, however, was an actual human being with a name. I sent him electronically the same documents I had sent to unnamed PayPal gremlins long ago, and he noticed the mixup and lifted the restriction in a couple of minutes. I strongly recommended that PayPal make their appeals process more flexible. For example, in my case, they could have simply attempted the trial deposit again the next day, and it would have worked fine.
I very much regret wasting time with the regular appeals process, and learned the classic lesson over again: only deal with People who have Names.
posted on June 26, 2001 06:36:00 AM new
Hi. I certainly don't think you did anything wrong. I totally agree. But unfortunately PayPal seems to prefer their current system, where the customer gets horribly inconvenienced, over something more flexible as you suggest.
Since you are posting in this thread your statement One wonders, is there a relationship between being a jerk and being ingored? must be referring to someone that is also posting in this thread.
Your comment is insulting and outside the boundaries of basic etiquette and you are being warned that should you continue to post in this manner, your privileges will be in jeopardy.
posted on June 26, 2001 04:40:01 PM new
Roofguy just makes people hate Paypal even more! He does no good on this site except to cut down and spin people who have "real" issues.
The fact is that if PPD was not here to help this poor guy - what would that guy have done?
The way that you think is "usefull" or whatever - does Paypal alot of harm - it for sure has made me have a very bad impression about PayPal.
posted on June 27, 2001 02:36:46 PM newSending money to an email address that doesn't belong to anyone with a PayPal account is apparently an acceptable practice.
Speaking as someone who has NEVER had a acount with them they've thrown a monkey wench into several of deals doing this.
posted on June 27, 2001 06:40:21 PM new
Unfortunately, allowing someone to send money to a user without an account is a stupid practice done by every payment service. I don't know why they do it. Maybe they do get a small percentage of folks signing up to get the money but I also think they get a large number of folks who mistype the ID, think they have paid, get into a battle with the other person and eventually get disgusted with the payment service. Don't single out paypal - they all do it.
What I don't get about this story and the many similar ones we have seen is this: if someone opens a PP account and withdraws a substantial sum of money and the fraud indication is tripped, why does PP freeze the account and KEEP THE MONEY? Why don't they put it back where it came from? They KNOW where it came from. They KNOW who it definitely belongs to. This is like someone coming into a bank with a check drawn on one of their accounts. They suspect the check is forged or stolen. So what do they do? They cash the check but keep the money themselves. Does this make sense to anyone?
posted on July 1, 2001 10:14:55 PM new
Jak20 - I am delighted that you got resolution but was glad to see your piece about an AP press release and the potential or pending class action suits. As one who feels very strongly that PayPal have aided and abetted in a fraud against me at worst and at best have provided the absolute worst customer service possible I am very interested in finding any lawyer who is working on this.
If auctionwatch allows this posting to stand and you get this please pass along any information that you might have that could be helpful in that regard. We have no end of ambulance chasers in my parts but I would like to find someone who is already versed in the shenanigans of PayPal so the process can be sped up.
