ChowYYY
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posted on July 3, 2001 11:01:47 AM new
My paypal account was "restricted" then "locked" since early May 2001, when I have over US$10,000 cash in the account. I was told that my account is being investigated by their corporate headquarter (not the "account review deparment" ; when they have done I would be informed.
I waited nearly two months and they never send me a word about the progress. I called nearly ten times to the phone number 1888-221-1161 and they seldom have any info to tell (I am based in Hong Kong and on their international account. Guess how much I am paying for the IDD phone bills).
I spoke to a supervisor Bob for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I asked him to pass on a message to the headquarter telling them I want to know what is going on; I also asked Bob to send me an email if he got any reply.
Today (around 11.30am ET, July 3, 2001) I spoke to Bob again. No news. Before I could finish my question the line was dropped. I called again immediately. After being held for few minutes a lady told me that Bob "has left for the day" and he left a message on my file saying something like "I have told the account owner everything we know and no any further information can be given".
I feel like being told that I should never call them again, disregard the fact that I still have over $10,000 in their place.
Anyone can tell me what to do next?
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roofguy
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posted on July 3, 2001 11:07:12 AM new
Why did PayPal lock the account?
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ChowYYY
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posted on July 3, 2001 11:40:34 AM new
That's what I am asking Paypal.
I am a seller of fashion accessories and I have shipping proof of every payment I got. I have been using Paypal for the business since June 2000. A couple of fraud card investigations conducted in the past (in which I was the seller) but they were all cleared because of the shipping proof I kept.
Why do they come to lock my account now?
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roofguy
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posted on July 3, 2001 12:13:18 PM new
Some ideas.
Were any of those chargebacks substantial in size? Does "couple" mean two, or something else?
Has PayPal always known that you were in Hong Kong?
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paypaldamon
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posted on July 3, 2001 01:02:00 PM new
Hi chowyyy,
Can you please send me your account information to [email protected]?
Thank you for your patience.
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ChowYYY
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posted on July 4, 2001 12:39:25 AM new
To roofguy:
Most of my transactions are in the range of $50-$350. The "couple" I meant 2-3 times. None of those chargebacks actually took place after paypal's investigation. Paypal knows I am in HK. I worked out this international account with one of their analysts from the "account review department".
I am clean and clear.
To paypaldamon:
I just emailed you my registered email address.
In case you care to know, I used to make a living out of that online business. Your two month restriction on my account has put me out of business. My money frozen by you has caused me living on loans.
Paypal tears my life.
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kellyb1
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posted on July 4, 2001 02:26:28 AM new
Ok, I just have to ask...why in the world would you keep such a large balance in the account?
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ritadooley
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posted on July 4, 2001 02:28:11 AM new
Paypal damon is no help at all. I contacted him regarding a transaction that was made thru my credit card which they ended up taking the money, $141.00 from my bank account without me knowing. Not doing they had took the money from my bank account I ended up getting 3 overdraft charges from the bank for $28.00 each and one of them was for a $6.03 debit charge. I have closed my account and will never use Paypal again. .
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roofguy
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posted on July 4, 2001 07:43:37 AM new
ChowYYY: today is a holiday in the US.
I do wonder about those chargebacks which "never happened". If the cards were used fraudulently, the chargebacks did happen, although you might have been protected.
If that happened three times, it would definitely look suspicious.
However, let's wait for paypaldamon's report.
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chum
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posted on July 4, 2001 06:21:07 PM new
You should contact the better business bureau to get your account fixed. I have included their current report, and link below.
BBB Customer Experience Record
Custom Report
PayPal acts as a third party between the recipient and the sender of an online money transaction. Our file experience shows that PayPal has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to a pattern of complaints alleging that the company requires too much personal information in order to withdraw funds and that the consumer is unable to reach a customer service representative. The company responds to all complaints brought to its attention by the Bureau.
http://www.bbbsilicon.org/
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ChowYYY
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posted on July 4, 2001 07:23:05 PM new
To kellyb1:
I usually move the money to my bank whenever the sum reach $1000. At that time I was away for few days and so happen a few customers paid up their big orders at the same time. The amount built up to few thousands. I tried to move them to bank. But during the few days grey period (when the money was moving from Paypal to my bank), my Paypal account was "restricted". The transfered amount was then "reversed" to my Paypal account. Naturaly I protested about the restriction in accordance with their instructions. New funds kept coming. I let them in as I thought the restriction would be over like previously did. Then suddenly my account was "locked" with the huge amount left in the account.
To ritadooley:
I would be surprised if Damon has a higher authority or level of access then the Bob I spoke with in Paypal.
To Damon:
Surprise me if you could. But no matter what I am, as well as others in the board are, expecting some response from you, with which I can proceed with. Don't tell me I should just wait for the investigation and there is nothing else I can do. Your Bob told me such already. Your corporate HQ owns me an answer on when the investigation will be completed and when can I have the money back.
To roofguy:
I am not sure if you are referring me as being suspicious or others. But that 3 transactions have different buyers with totally different shipping addresses. If a buyer come to me with a fraud card, me as an ordinary people, has nothing to detect it. On the other hand, according to previous reports in paypalsucks.com and paypalwarning.com, there can be other reasons for Paypal to restrict an account.
My account was restricted once when I tried to move $10,000 to bank. Later I was told that their system automatically "restrict" an account whenever that amount of funds movement take place. In that case I needed to fax them a stack of ID documents to prove that me is myself. Weeks later the funds got thru to my bank. They said they moved it manually. I never keep that much money in Paypal thereafter.
To chum:
Thanks for your suggestion. I did so two days ago after visiting paypalsucks.com. But judging from the report you attached I doubt if BBB has anything to do to help the victims.
To all:
There were a couple of threads in AW about class action lawsuit against Paypal since end of last year. Both threads have long discussions and reports but no real action seems to be proceeding. Any news?
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roofguy
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posted on July 5, 2001 08:21:44 AM new
ChowYYY: all recent stories which started out like yours have been resolved. Optimism is appropriate.
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paypaldamon
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posted on July 5, 2001 09:08:26 AM new
Hi Chowyyy,
Thank you for your patience. I will be in the office shortly and will escalate your case quickly.
Hi ritadooley,
I couldn't do anything about your situation because you used the instant ach option. Users that do not wish to use this option need to change their payment methods on the "Send Money"screen.
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ritadooley
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posted on July 5, 2001 04:36:00 PM new
Excuse me Damon, Maybe you need to read the letter I sent you AGAIN. I DID NOT USE INSTANT TRANSFER!!! I had just updated e-mail and my credit card at the same. i don't wanna hear anything you got to say
Thank you for replying. Enclosed is a copy of the last letter I sent Paypal.
I
have several others. On phone conversation I talked to someone named Irene.
She tried to tell me that someone else had my password.I'm disabled and am
the
only one who knows of the account. I hope you can help me. Thanks,
ritadooley
This is from service agreement # 10 from one of my letters, I've got other
e-
mails also :
Enclosed is what I've been talking about:
ctronic Transfers. When you make a payment funded by Instant Transfer or
eCheck, you are requesting an electronic transfer from your checking
account.
Upon your request, PayPal will make electronic transfers via the Automated
Clearing House (ACH) system to and from your U.S. checking account in the
amount you specify . You agree that such requests constitute authorization
for
such transfers. If you request an electronic transfer from your checking
account, you also authorize PayPal to confirm your control of your checking
account by making two small deposits to your checking account at PayPal's
own
expense. Your checking account and your PayPal account will be considered
verified once you correctly enter the deposit amounts on the PayPal website.
Support for international checking accounts is coming soon.
(PayPal will never make electronic transfers from your checking
account
without your explicit permission. Furthermore, PayPal provides you
protection
against unauthorized withdrawals from your checking account under the terms
of
Article III below.)
>
>
> PAYPAL MADE AN UNAUTHORIZED TRANSACTION WITHOUT MY EXPLICIT PERMISSION!!!!
I NEED A PHONE NUMBER SO I CAN TALK TO SOMEONE IN PERSON, PLEASE
I don't seem to be getting this across to whoever is answering my e-mails.
When I use paypal, it's supposed to be charged to my credit card. That's
what I
believed at the time I made the transaction. I was not asked if it could be
deducted from my checking account. I DID NOT KNOW!!! I have never had
this
problem before. IF I've got my options set to have the funds be charged
from my
credit card and THERE WERE enough funds in my credit card. Paypal had no
right
if there was some error with my credit card to just automatically deducting
the
transaction from my bank account. I WAS NEVER ASKED!!! If I had been aware
that it was I would have checked to see what the problem was with my credit
card to get it straightened out. The transaction should NOT have been
made!!!
IT should have been denied and it wasn't. I WAS NEVER TOLD OR ASKED AT THE
TIME
IF THE FUNDS COULD BE TOOK FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT. IT WAS JUST DONE!!!
GIVE ME A PHONE NUMBER TO CALL SOMEONE OR WHO DO I NEED TO TALK TO ABOUT
THIS
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paypaldamon
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posted on July 5, 2001 04:40:10 PM new
Hi ritadooley,
The records do show this was the payment choice made. This is the default option and the end user needs to change it if they do not wish to pay in this manner.
I can assist with the password issue, but I would need your account records (again) to do so. I would then need to pass it through the fraud department.
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ChowYYY
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posted on July 5, 2001 06:50:45 PM new
To roofguy:
Where can I read those happy endings? Hopefully I will be one of them.
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ritadooley
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posted on July 5, 2001 08:48:28 PM new
To All : Wow, he still doesn't understand. I said I didn't wanna hear anything he had to say and he writes me. Maybe I need to tell him to write me so he won't.
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paypaldamon
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posted on July 5, 2001 09:39:22 PM new
Hi ritadooley,
You are posting a message in a public forum claiming that PayPal has done something wrong. The records indicate otherwise and the payment was taken from the bank account because the default setting of "PAY WITH A BANK ACCOUNT" wasn't changed on the "SEND MONEY" screen to "PAY WITH A CREDIT CARD".
You also mentioned a password issue, which I offered to refer to the fraud department.
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joice
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posted on July 5, 2001 09:50:20 PM new
ritadooley,
Please step back and tone your posts down and please take note that this part of the CG's includes Company Reps:
8.1. Respect the Community. AuctionWatch takes pride in its Community. Please remember that you are expected to treat your fellow Community members and Moderators and staff with respect and consideration.
Your posting privileges will be in jeopardy should you continue to post in this manner.
Joice
[email protected]
**spelling
[ edited by joice on Jul 5, 2001 09:51 PM ]
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zymo
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posted on July 6, 2001 05:39:03 AM new
bump
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ChowYYY
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posted on July 6, 2001 07:39:20 PM new
Any good news or happy ending stories from anybody?
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LANEFAMILY
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posted on July 13, 2001 01:36:03 PM new
That is a good question. What is going with this? Any one? ChowYYY? Damon???
Jim
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ChowYYY
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posted on July 18, 2001 01:41:16 AM new
My story has not ended yet (though I wish it had). Here are the updates.
PPDamon assured me on July 5 that someone from PP would contact me soon. A couple of days later an analyst K (whom previously worked on my international account) from the account review department emailed me to call him.
Over the phone K convinced me that he would be doing everything he could to find out what is going on. While he would take the time to investigate he suggested me to send him shipping proofs of all those tens of "pending reversed" transactions.
Despite the fact that I already faxed the proofs weeks ago and K said he sees no record of those. As mentioned on my July 3 writing on this thread I called their Bob to check if the fax was received. Bob never wanted to help, a very incompetent staff.
Anyway I felt that K was really wanted to help so I said I would mail the papers by USPS priority mail to his attention.
The mail eventually deliveried on July 14 as I tracked online. I emailed K twice to confirm if the mail's arrival. No reply.
Today I received an email from them:
======
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:55:56 -0700
From: "[email protected]" To: <identity removed by ChowYYY>
Subject: Re: Resolution of Buyer Complaint Case #59454 (KMM12064247C0KM)
Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
-----------------------------------
Dear PayPal User,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Unfortunately account listed under (ChowYYY's paypal email address) is closed and you currently owe PayPal $857.09 to clear up this account.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review Department
========
I don't know what is going on. I forwarded that message to K and am awaiting his reply.
I have over $10,000 on my account. Without a single reason given Paypal is keeping all the funds, and say I still own them money ?!?!?!?!?
I don't know when they will transfer the money out of my bank or credit card account $857.09 "legally" according to their terms of service. I don't know when they will send me another email saying the actual amount be $857,000,000.09.
I feel like a lamb sheep to be killed for the enjoyment of killing. I am totally black out. Anyone can shed me some light?
roofguy: Didn't you tell me to be optimistic? Would you if you were me?
damon: Will you step in and do something?
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camachinist
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posted on July 18, 2001 07:31:31 AM new
ChowYYY
Thank you for the update....I'm sorry to see that so little has come of your public plea for help.
I have noted over the last week or so that Damon has become very selective in the threads he responds to...it is possible that PP corporate has altered his ability to interact with users here. I would hope, as he has your private e-mail, that he would communicate with you directly.
I am curious (as I have never had my account frozen)...can you still see a balance in your account (the 10K you were talking about earlier in the thread)? Or does the account now reflect a zero balance with the alleged amount you owe PP as a negative number...
Paypal operates in California (has a physical address here) but I am unclear as to where they are incorporated. Considering the size of this dispute, it might be a good idea to gather your relevant documents and get some legal advice from an American lawyer as how to best proceed. From your latest contact with PP, it seems clear that they have no intention of resolving your dispute. You may want to consult their terms of service and customer agreement to see if you agreed to binding arbitration as a condition of your membership....if so, that will have an impact on your options of action.
The only reason I mention these options is because of your being a foreign customer and that time is of the essence when pursuing resolution, in that time limits which may be involved need to be investigated...
IMO, this is a case which bears close scrutiny and I hope we can all learn something from it.
My best wishes for a equitable resolution.
Pat
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roofguy
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posted on July 18, 2001 07:55:25 AM new
ChowYYY:roofguy: Didn't you tell me to be optimistic?
Hi, ChowYYY. I'm sorry to hear this report.
The issue clearly focuses on those tens of pending reversed transactions. That's a lot more than before.
Can you tell us more about them?
[ edited by roofguy on Jul 18, 2001 07:58 AM ]
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jrb3
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posted on July 18, 2001 10:51:02 AM new
Sounds like your customers are the ones sticking it to you.
If you have multiple chargebacks it woulsd definitely be a flagged sign of fraud even if it isn't.
Have you tried to contact your customers about why they requested a chargeback?
Something tells me we're not getting the whole story here.
Joe B
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paypaldamon
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posted on July 18, 2001 01:42:45 PM new
Hi ChowYYY,
Can you please send me the account email address again?
Hi camachinist,
I can interact on the boards and I am under no direction not to respond. I have been tied up on several other projects, which limits my time to interact on the boards.
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purplehaze1967
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posted on July 18, 2001 01:58:34 PM new
ChowYYY said:
Despite the fact that I already faxed the proofs weeks ago and K said he sees no record of those. As mentioned on my July 3 writing on this thread I called their Bob to check if the fax was received. Bob never wanted to help, a very incompetent staff.
Anyway I felt that K was really wanted to help so I said I would mail the papers by USPS priority mail to his attention.
The mail eventually deliveried on July 14 as I tracked online. I emailed K twice to confirm if the mail's arrival. No reply.
ppd said:
Can you please send me the account email address again?
Repeated requests to send and re-send basic info. Unresponsivness to customer e-mails and phone calls. Incompetent customer service staff. And all this time, ChowYYY's $10,000 sits in limbo, earning float for PayPal. What a service...
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jul 18, 2001 02:00 PM ]
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paypaldamon
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posted on July 18, 2001 02:04:38 PM new
Hi purplehaze1967,
I don't keep account records on file for cases that were directed to another department. I would be bogged down with the record-keeping and I want to be aware of the reason for the actions taken.
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camachinist
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posted on July 18, 2001 02:06:00 PM new
Hi Damon,
Glad you're still with us....
I follow a number of online trading boards and indeed know you are a busy man...*G*
Just hadn't seen many posts by you over the last week and hoped nothing bad had happened..... or that corporate had constrained you. Even with the naysayers, I've seen you help out a lot of folks...
When it's all said and done at the end of the business day, we're all still people and you've gotten more than your fair share of grief...
As roofguy and jrb3 noted, there may be more to this story than meets the eye....hope we can all learn from this one, considering the global reach of trading these days...
Pat
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