posted on July 3, 2001 09:45:59 PM new
I acquired a Paypal Mastercard a month or two
ago and so far it has worked great.
UNTIL NOW, BE WARNED YOU CANNOT DISPUTE A
CREDIT CARD CHARGE USING A PAYPAL CREDIT CARD!!!
On 6/27 I went to a gas station with
my in-laws and while my father-in-law was
inside getting snacks, I used my Paypal card
to pay for the gas. In the middle of pumping
my father-in-law came out and said that he
paid for it already. So I went inside and
the cashier said he had cancelled the charge
and that is why no receipt came out of the
pump after pumping. He promised I would
not be charged.
Of course a charge showed up on 6/30 on my
Paypal account and was deducted from my
Paypal balance.
I sent Paypal an email disputing the charge
and they said it was already completed so
they could do NOTHING ABOUT IT! They suggested I talk to the seller and get refunded. I don't even remember where the
gas station was. I'm on vacation and we
were in a busy city. Even if I did find the
gas station, the likelihood of getting the
same cashier that remembers my transaction
is close to nothing.
This was a credit card transaction, not an
auction purchase. I can't believe I do not have the ability to dispute a charge on a MASTERCARD. Why does Mastercard allow them to shame their name?
It is only for a small amount but the principle of this is driving me crazy.
posted on July 3, 2001 10:27:13 PM new
Hi,
I think you may have signed up for their ATM/Debit card thinking it was a credit card....the debit card does carry the MasterCard logo....
The circumstances you describe are one danger of using a debit card....
If you still have your original receipt for the transaction your FIL paid for, it would be worth approaching the merchant again...if they're local...
If not, I'd consider it a valuable lesson...
posted on July 4, 2001 04:30:19 AM new
I have to disagree. The rights users have with debit cards are different when they use the card like a debit card and provide a 'pin' number, AND when they use the card like a credit card. The user's right to dispute a credit card charge occurs because such a credit card charge can be placed on a card without the user's explicit permission. When a user uses a 'pin' number with a debit card purchase, the user is explicitly giving permission to the sale and can be held accountable for that decision.
If it's true that PayPal does not allow anyone using their Mastercard to charge-back a mistaken charge, then I would call Mastercard for a clarification. These terms and the differences should also be listed on the PayPal website somewhere.
[...]
I just checked the PayPal website and the terms for using the MasterCard are here:
Here is the relevant section, describing your right to a charge-back IF you did NOT provide the PIN number:
"... Also if your on-line statement shows transactions that you did not authorize, TELL US AT ONCE. If you do not tell us within 60 days after the Periodic Notice is transmitted to you, you may not get back any money you lost after the 60 days if we can prove that we could have prevented the transactions if you had told us in time. A transfer is not considered unauthorized, and you will be fully liable, if you have given a person your Personal Identification Number (PIN) or debit card. "
"If a good reason (such as a long trip or a hospital stay) kept you from telling us about unauthorized transactions, let us know and we will extend the time periods if and as appropriate. You may also have additional rights under the MasterCard Zero Liability program. "
Since you only authorized ONE of those two transactions at the gas station, you should be allowed a charge-back.
[ edited by SnowDog2001 on Jul 4, 2001 04:41 AM ]
posted on July 4, 2001 07:31:29 AM new
I have successfully disputed Debit Card (Visa) charges before through my bank's checking account. There was not a problem in doing so either. After two weeks, I was notified the charges were reversed. Seems to me that an unauthorized transaction is exactly that - unauthorized - full protection to the cardholder should apply.
Gee, Paypal Damon, say it isn't true that a cardholder is unable to reverse an unauthorized transaction using PP's debit card!! If that is the case, why the MasterCard logo?
posted on July 4, 2001 07:59:59 AM new
camachinist and SnowDog,
I used the card as a CREDIT card, not a debit card. I did not use my pin number. Therefore it should act like a credit card not an ATM card.
Just like with any other credit card, someone
could charge something fraudulently just by
having the number. It is hard to believe
that a Mastercard wouldn't have some protection for a fraudulent charge even if the card isn't stolen, just the number.
Thanks for the update....my possible confusion stems from my inability to find a MasterCard credit card on PayPal's site.
I'm a verified member and the only two possibilities I see for my account level are a VISA credit card or MasterCard ATM/Debit card.
If you could clarify, I would be appreciative. I have been reluctant to have a debit card due to my perceived inability to perform a chargeback. This thread has given me hope that there are more security features in place than I was aware of.
The only information I could find on MasterCard's site regarding fraudulent use of a Debit card was directing the cardholder to contact the issuing bank or financial institution. I couldn't find any debit card chargeback guidelines but will look further. I did note that they have guidelines for credit card chargebacks and you can contact them from this page. Hopefully, they can answer your concerns more completely.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:33:02 AM new
Well, how much are you all willing to put up with. There are those who would suggest that there are bargain lawyers, and we were able to get a thread "locked" (or in PAYPAL parlance "restricted" I am going to suggest it here again. Ensure that your U.S. Congressional members are kept abreast of problems with internet financial instituations. I am aware there are those whose "hanging chad" did not come out in Florida. Nonetheless, I have been involved in consumer protection for a number of years.
I am not in favor of censorship or regulations, but I am in favor of fair play and that is what decent business organizations do. I have settled my business with PAYPAL (cancelled my credit card)- but there will be more Internet Banks and more credit card offers. Human error occurs, however it is not normal that the consumer is at fault 90% of the time. Take measures to protect yourselves. People may find this blunt, but I can assure you that the companies that I deal with deliver, and I have no funds locked up with any company. I am suggesting however, that you not keep people (WHO WILL MAKE LEGISLATIVE DECISIONS ANYWAY) in the dark about your problems. You will bleed to death in the parking lot because there is no emergency room to go to, ultimately.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:23:15 PM new
Credit cards are protected under the Fair Credit Billing Act.
Debit cards - this includes debit cards with Visa or MasterCard logos - under protected under the Electronic Funds Transfer Act.
Protection for credit cards is better than for debit cards, but that is not to say you do not have significant protections in either case as long as you follow certain procedures promptly.
Here is a link at the Federal Trade Commission with comprehensive information on your rights for both:
I am going to suggest it here again. Ensure that your U.S. Congressional members are kept abreast of problems with internet financial instituations. I am aware there are those whose "hanging chad" did not come out in Florida. Nonetheless, I have been involved in consumer protection for a number of years.