posted on July 13, 2001 12:04:13 PM new
They froze my account without ever contacting me and I don't know why. I am very angry about this and have every intention of contacting my congressmen(s) as well as my attorney to begin Legal proceedings.
Our website is very straight forward with all of our products and policies posted online for all to see and Not one person using PayPal has come to us with a complaint of any kind before hand and all of our customers are told upfront to allow up to ten days for their orders to arrive and sometimes longer if a holiday approaches.
We have been operating on the internet for well over five years with our merchant account bank and have never had any had anything like this happen.
As far as we can tell there have been three unjustified complaints against us:
1. customer #1: ordered on 6/25 and was told his order would take about ten days to arrive. After waiting 5 days he sent in a complaint to PayPal, not us. A couple of days later he received his merchandise just as he was told he would. This complaint is still pending.
2. customer #2: Ordered a membership and received his package within the ten days specified as well as access to our password protected website. After receiving this information a complaint was then sent to PayPal, not us. This complaint is still pending.
3. customer #3: Ordered a membership and received his package within the ten days as well as access to our password protected website. He also in a complaint to PayPal, not us. This has been resolved in our favor.
Please note that not one person on this list has tried to contact us in any way about having any type of problem nor have they tried to return our products to us. If they would have we would have tried to work something out. We offer toll free support to all of our customers so there really is no excuse not to contact us. We have comfirmation receipts for all orders and have provided proof to paypal for such.
Our policies: Dealer fees, & Membership fees are non-refundable items and are not covered as returnable items as these are services and fees paid for a service and do not constitute a product return. Software for download products are non-refundable, this is not a hidden clause.
Once a membership type sale is made a catalog and information package is mailed out to our customer, on the same day as the mailing the customer is emailed a username and password to enter our password protected members area, for this reason we DO NOT issue refunds.
All retail establishments have policies they adhere to as we do. Some stores will not issue a refund without a customer receipt while others have no problem with it. Software, once opened, is non-refundable no matter where you purchase it...the reason, you can make a copy, keep it for yourself and then get your money back.
posted on July 13, 2001 12:47:17 PM new
PayPal continues to maintain they contact customers when their accounts are restricted, yet I have never heard one instance of this ever happening...
posted on July 13, 2001 03:02:40 PM new
WOW...I am impressed. I posted on this board a few hours ago plus backed that up with a call to paypal customer support. PayPal informed me that someone would call me back today and they did. The problem was quickly resolved and all within one day.
Thank you PayPal Customer Support for your speedy response.
posted on July 13, 2001 04:19:28 PM new
LisaDe you should consider yourself very lucky that your problem got resolved so quickly. I was robbed and my PayPal account was frozen last March 20th. Despite hours of effort ...many dollars spent on phone calls, faxes, notaries and more... I have still not been able to get into my account to get money that is owed me. Of course, PayPal is able to keep accepting money for me. Could you please tell me the number and the person you were able to get through to? I can't get into customer service because they require a phone number and zip code from the caller...this information was changed on my account by the person who broke in. I am talking about close to $1,000 here ~
posted on July 13, 2001 05:38:49 PM new
I paid for a purchase (direct purchase, not an auction) via PayPal. Both the Seller and I are Verified PayPal members. The Seller did not ship the goods as promised. Needless to say, PayPal has not recovered my money from the Seller, here are their exact statements:
"PayPal has concluded the investigation of your Buyer Complaint. As our
policy states, we conducted this investigation on a best effort basis and
made no guarantee of funds recovery."
"Our investigation has revealed that the seller is at fault, as a result you
are due a refund. However, we regret to inform you that we were unable to
recover funds from the sellers account, as the seller's account balance is
$0."
Can someone please tell me just what good PayPal is if they cannot even guard their members against fraud from other members?
What the h**l good are the high fees paid to them?
I highly recommened, to everyone, to stop using PayPal: there has to be a better alternative for both Buyers and Sellers.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:53:14 AM new
Why legal proceedings against paypal? Write to your U.S. congressional members about the abuses that PAYPAL is conducting and let them know what "private information" they are requesting. You have two Senators, and a variety of Congressmen and Congresswomen. Sue PAYPAL if you want but don't leave the regulators in the dark. They are going to pass laws anyway. I don't want overegulation, I don't want bureaucracy. Paypal has access to the credit bureaus to determine the validity of credit card,and the integrity and creditworthiness of an individual. I bought twelve items via Ebay and paid with PAYPAL. No problems. Now they want a copy of my drivers license (which contains my SSN#, my checking account number??!!, my last credit card statement, and my latest utility bill. Sorry, I have never seen anything like it. I am not refinancing my house here and my credit card has a $15,000 limit with $5,000 overdraft protection. And, I owe no money to the credit card company - this information is all available to them. The Better Business Bureaus have received numerous complaints. Please don't sit on your hands. Draft a form letter and take a few minutes to mail it (emails are not effective) to your elected officials. It will cost less than $5 dollars, far cheaper than lawyers. We are going to get what we put up with and what we wait for - do not wait!!!! I would like to buy photo equipment on Ebay again, but Ebay thinks I am a deadbeat because PAYPAL has changed the rules of the game and, though I was the high bidder, it appears that I reneged on some winning auctions. We can sit around or we can do something, without (and even including) finding attorneys.
posted on July 15, 2001 02:25:16 PM new
It gets better.
With the PP attack on eBay about this logo stuff due to a eBay bug PP decides to attack the same place that feeds em'.
We've had no issue with paypal up to this point. We dont use the services as we have our own merchant account.
However... they are continually crossing the line and I'd say its about time sellers who dont accept paypal get reactive before this service ends up really damaging eBay.
So... With that.
Every seller not accepting PP payments but who DOES recieve the "Youve got cash" emails? Its time to use that.
You ALL want to file complaints with eBay about that issue. Write safe harbor. But what for? You have a terms of sale contract between you and your buyer. You as a seller have not granted PayPal any expressed permission to have ANY PART in your CONTRACT between you and your buyer yet here they ar accepting money on YOUR behalf w/ NO legal permission to do so. Thats a predatory business practice and that comes straight from the mouth of a state attorney general.
They are in FACT libel for it. Secondly, they are charging a consumers account/credit card etc. defrauding that consumer as you are NOT a member as the seller. Essentially that equates to stealing the consumers money even if only temporarily.
The "Youve got cash" is commerical mail and SPAM as you are NOT a member.
If sellers who are TIRED of getting such mail, dealing with consumers who send you money and incist you deal with it react NOW and in significant numbers you A. Give eBay a reason to ban PP payments as eBay can clearly show to authorities the damage done to eBay as well as the fact they are charging folks accounts/cards PURPOSEFULLY when the seller is NOT a subscriber to their service. They are spamming eBay sellers by sending the mails and they are entering into YOUR contract without any permission from YOU as the seller who SETS TERMS OF SALE CONTRACT with the buyer, thats a predatory business practice.
You want to issue mail to the California State Attorney Generals offices seeking an injuction against the service. You want to file formal complaint with the US Dept. Of Justice as well. You can even take the issue of them entering into YOUR contract with YOUR buyer into your local courts.
Make SURE you all email safe harbor at eBay so they can compile a file and get the service removed entirely from eBay for that predatory conduct. Understand, the law is being broken in THREE places here.
1. They are entering into YOUR contract with YOUR buyer w/o any permission from YOU, the seller, which eBay clearly shows in terms of service sets "terms of sale". If you dont accept PP as part of your terms of sale for them to engage in YOUR contract is a predatory business practice and thus a request with their state attorney general for an injunction WILL STICK if enough sellers complain.
2. They are charging a consumers account when you are not a member of the service. Thats defrauding the consumer. If the consumer knew you are not a member they'd never have tried to pay. Its NOT your responisibility to put in your terms of sale "Dont accept paypal", paypal is a business. Its THEIR repsonsibility to make sure if a consumer tries to pay a seller whos not a member to inform THEIR user they cant tender payment that way. Instead, they charge the card and then enter into your contract in a predatory fashion. Does Billpoint fo this? No. So, Billpoint can also pursue a predatory business practice issue with authorities.
You dont have to put "I dont accept paypal in anything", they are a business that has NO business in YOUR business unless you AUTHORIZE it. By charging the consumers account when you are not a member that have entered into defrauding the consumer.
3. Commerical SPAM, they have NO business soliciting you to join their service by accepting payment from YOUR contract with YOUR buyer and then spamming you to join. Hence, they cause YOU your time, effort, credibility, in the case of feedback or "legal threats" from your buyer they are thus putting YOUR "businesses/personal name/credibility" in jeopardy BY them entering into YOUR contract with YOUR buyer and again, thats predatory. If your customer threatens legal action against you or even reporting it to eBay to legally investigate then again, this is a circumstance NOT caused by you. Its an event that happened from a service that accepted payment and should NOT have nor should they have charged the buyer as your not a member.
So any sellers SICK of this silly game w/ PP need to A. Let eBay know the above each and EVERYTIME you get a "I've got cash". Forward it ALL to safeharbor thus giving eBay the tools to remedy the problems. They cant ACT unless you all complain to them.
File a complaint w/ the California Better Business Bureau displaying exactly whats shown above in your own way. It gives them the tool needed to reign this place in.
You might wish to display it to billpoint, C2It and others as to them, its a VERY predatory practice, they can file formal complaint with Visa/MC as well as authorities and get an injunction slapped on the service probably overnight.
Finally get a complaint form from the California State AG and again, inform them of it. If enough sellers who are sick of this places actions/control over YOUR transactions when your not even a member do "the right thing" authorities will take issue with it forcing them to change the predatory policies and give eBay the tools needed to get eBay back under eBays control rather than an entity who engages in such practices.
I have called PP twice now and recieved noi calls back as we are tired of these Got Cash messages and threats from our buying public.
I have sent several emails with no responses as well.
posted on July 15, 2001 06:56:30 PM new
Most folks know I'm no friend of paypal, but complaining about the "you've got cash" emails to ebay is silly. Paypal is not spamming you. The winning bidder did and used paypal to do it. If your bidder spams you using an AOL address, do you complain to ebay about AOL? There are actually two parties at fault here. The bidder is 90% at fault for sending you a payment you don't accept. The payment service (and they ALL do it) is 10% at fault for accepting a payment for someone who doesnt have an account. These services foolishly believe that a seller will sign up for an account in order to claim the payment. They don't seem to understand that for every seller they *might* get with this silly tactic, they anger dozens of other customers who dont understand why they can send a payment and it doesnt get received. How many messages have we seen where someone misspelled the ID or added an extra period? If the services simply rejected payments where the ID was not a member, they would have fewer problems.
posted on July 16, 2001 09:52:17 AM newwhynot If the consumer knew you are not a member they'd never have tried to pay.
Before you confirm the sending of the PayPal payment you are given a confirmation screen. The first line gives the email address the payment is going to. The second line gives the status of that email account (personal account, premier account, number of transactions, etc.) or it tells the sender that the email is not a registered member.
I realize every email you get you don't want is called spam, but if you look into what the definition of spam is you'll find it is "multiple emails with the same content sent to multiple people."
Western Union has no control over whether or not the person getting the money order will accept it, they don't have to accept it, but they've been operating that way for several days.
posted on July 16, 2001 07:28:05 PM new
I think Whynot has a good point.
The user is "not using PayPal to send a message" when the message sent to all recipients is always exactly the same. It's a message from PayPal, no question. Changing the "from" address has no meaning in an age where you even get spam spoofed as coming from your own email account.
Whynot, I don't know where you live but there are 18 states that have anti-spam laws. If you've contacted PayPal and asked them to stop and they refuse... then try and make a case in small claims court.
posted on July 16, 2001 08:17:47 PM newloggiaIf you've contacted PayPal and asked them to stop and they refuse... then try and make a case in small claims court.
Before you run to the courthouse on loggia's advice I recommend you look at this.
This man has collected $13,000.00 from spammers, often he doesn't even have to go to court. Why not just use this link that gives instructions on how to sue a spammer. I think you'll find the article enlightening and a bit amusing. You just might learn that some of these posts don't have an understanding on what is legally considered 'spam.'
posted on July 18, 2001 10:03:42 AM new
whynot, it gets even better than that.
In my case, I do state in my auctions that I do not accept paypal.
being tired of the atempts regardless of my statement, I have blocked email from paypal.com. Which means they canot send me a "you've got cash" email.
Now I have a customer who blew by my auction terms and sent cash by paypal anyway.
She now wants to know here her item is.
The revelation about this, is even when the email is undeliverable, paypal did not notify the buyer, rather they take and hold the cash in limbo for the 30 day period or whatever ir is, and collect the float on it.
I blocked the email from paypal.com after damon came on these boards and told me that the email is not from paypal, rather it comes from the buyer. THe facts speak for themselves.
uaru,
"Before you confirm the sending of the PayPal payment you are given a confirmation screen. The first line gives the email address the payment is going to. The second line gives the status of that email account (personal account, premier account, number of transactions, etc.) or it tells the sender that the email is not a registered member."
But don't you think that NOT notifying the customer that the email can't be delivered is just a bit below what you would expect from an honest business?
posted on July 18, 2001 10:12:19 AM new
This same thing is happening to me. My auctions and my congratulations letter says that I do not accept PayPal and to please disregard their logos...(since my password is frozen I cannot get in to discontinue their logo going on my auctions). Nonetheless, sometimes it gets past the buyer and they go ahead and pay me by PayPal. They are nice to try and cancel the payment...BUT it comes up as "claimed" and they can't. So...I get paid for auctions, yet cannot get it! I send out my items on trust that SOMEDAY PayPal will get my new password to me....aaarrrrrrrruuuuuuugh!
Have you determined that the funds being paid by buyers and showing up on their screen as being "claimed" are actually in your account?
I can't even see my account until logging in....
Just to clarify for me....many here have said their accounts are frozen.....is this what you are saying or is it just that your password is not being accepted for login purposes?
A sinister idea just crossed my mind from an impression I got from your post....
What if...
PP freezes your account and continues to accept money on that account ........and reports to the buyer it has been "claimed"...
If your account is frozen, how do you know that you've even been mailed the payment and, moreover, accepted it?
Wow, that's a can of worms.....and who really has the money?
I hope you'll forgive me for some of my questions as my account has never been frozen....
posted on July 18, 2001 11:08:16 AM new
Mallory, it would seem to me that if you changed your eBay password, PayPal could no longer do auto insert of the logos.
posted on July 18, 2001 01:52:14 PM new
Retired2Late...You are absolutely right and I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it myself!
Pat...frozen means you are no longer able to access your account...its just like being shut down...except they can still accept your money. My initial problem supposedly was resolved...but when I was robbed, the culprit changed all my information...password, info code question, zip code, etc. I have been waiting all this time just to get a new password sent to me...of course after numerous attempts with calls, sending information, etc. ~ They blame the postal system. My opinion is there are too many departments at PayPal without them conferring with each other with their instructions. Or the stack of complaints and issues to resolve is so high they can't get the manpower to deal with it! You're right. I have no idea if I am indeed receiving payments. I'm just going by my instincts in trusting my buyers. One of them has actually given me a double payment and when PayPal is opened up to me, I'm paying her back. Another offered to double pay me as back up...but I just think that's not right. I'd discuss this forever just to vent but better not....
posted on August 1, 2001 10:35:38 AM new
Looks like you can add me to the list of unhappy Paypal account holders, who can't use their account!
I have written Paypal several times, and always received an incomplete answer, always repeating back to me things I already know. They have not addressed the issues, such as why the site states that I had no transactions, when I have documentation of an electronic transfer from my checking account to Paypal, and I also have the transaction number from the funds I paid out through Paypal. Their "security" measures have kept me from accessing my account. On the original account, it stated that my bank account was already in use, and could only be used for one account. That was my only account. So I tried to open a different account, and it will not let me use the same (my only) bank account. Their bright suggestion was that I close my bank account and open a new one. No, thank you! Mess up all my other transactions with other companies just for them?!
I will be following through on the letter I sent them early this morning, re: contacting higher authorities. They cannot be allowed to run loose and rampant, doing what ever they want with our money! I have no trust left for them, as they have responded poorly to the problem, have not kept accurate records, and evidently have a track record of misconduct with other people's money!
posted on August 1, 2001 10:46:27 AM new
Hi cynline,
Can you please send me the account information? I would like to make sure that your matter is addressed, and handled, promptly. My email address is [email protected]. Please include all pertinent details relative to what has happened.
posted on August 1, 2001 11:35:07 AM new
Gee Damon, as long as you're here, why don't you address my questions in the "Recent Chargeback Issue" thread? You know, the ones about how Paypal claimed that they would protect sellers against ALL chargebacks, only now the sellers discover that they weren't protected.
And why is it that the only way for users to get problems "addressed, and handled, promptly" is to post a public complaint? Why doesn't Paypal have a customer service department (as opposed to a customer stonewalling department) to do this in the first place?
posted on September 25, 2001 07:50:38 PM new
I just want to say, I've had numerous problems with Paypal. Let me explain my situation, and maybe one of you can help me out here.
1) Sold a laptop
2) Received Payment
3) Deposited Payment
4) Sent laptop
5) They complained after 5 days.
Okay you can probably guess by now what paypal had done after the complaint.
Stuck me with a frozen account. And a balance of -1300 dollars.
After that 3 more people from Auctionaddict.com sent me payments via paypal after I told them not to, so their money to was stuck in my account. After 2 weeks of calling and emailing paypal, those people requested chargebacks also. Leaving me in Debt of up to -5500 dollars.
I also contacted paypal with this information, I was rather upset.
I asked them how could they take money from my account without contacting the seller and buyer first, to see what was going on. I don't see the rights in them declining and holding money at will. Is there a law against this, if so, who may I contact, this has litterly costed me over 13000 dollars in fee's. I lost a car, and gained a bad rep within the ebay community.
On top of it all I was arrested for theft, and had to pay a 10000 dollar bond. Paypal has litterly ruined my life.
I'm now considered a fraud. Because I didn't send a product that I didn't receive money from. Am I in the wrong? Either way it goes, I'm having to pay all that money back, which is ridiculus. Oh, and I seen the post on the information they need to tell if your the legit user of the account. The thing is, I don't have any bills, I've paid cash for everything I own, now I have more money stuck within another account I made through them.
posted on September 26, 2001 07:31:00 AM new
Do not make a rush to judgement before getting all the facts. This is one of PayPal' s major problem.
When all the facts concerning a customer's problem are uncovered, than it is very easy to deal with the customer's complaint in an appropriate manner.
Before you run to the courthouse on loggia's advice I recommend you look at this.
