posted on August 21, 2001 10:40:46 AM new
I have a buyer that I had a lot of trouble with on ebay - she got NAR'd for harassing me but is back. Now she's sending me small amounts of $$ via paypal so I get charged FEES to get back at me.
Please help me in how to stop her. I've emailed paypal and ebay again and I feel I have no recourse. I rely on paypal a great deal for my sales so don't' want to get rid of it or change my email as she can still find by using my user id - I even changed that but it shows up under old for 30 days....
posted on August 21, 2001 12:27:45 PM new
ok after reading other thread you posted am worried they could give me a ton of $ .1 payments and deplete me, my debit card is attached to that and it would deplete my checking account.
posted on August 21, 2001 12:51:28 PM new
my debit VISA card (ie checking account) is my paypal card - so any funds that I have to pay for that are not in my paypal account already come out of that - so she could deplete that. I know she's only done one, but I want to STOP her from doing anymore. that would really really screw my life up to be honest.....
posted on August 21, 2001 01:25:19 PM new
A more immediate solution to your problem would be to change the email address on your PayPal account to a "private" address (i.e. an email address that only you know about, and isn't registered with eBay, etc.) and then delete your "public" email addresses from your PayPal account. In this way, no one can send you payments without you first giving then your "private" address. Any payments sent to your "public" email addresses would remain unclaimed.
Another way of preventing users from sending you payments using the "Send Money" tab on the PayPal website is to log into PayPal and change the setting of "Payment Receiving Preferences - Payments via Send Money" in your profile to "NO". According to the info on PayPal's website:
"By choosing NO, you will only accept payments initiated via Web Accept, Shopping Cart, Instant Purchase, Subscriptions, Winning Bidder Notification, Mass Payments, or Money Request. Warning: iIf you choose "No," PayPal users who attempt to send you money by initiating the transaction from the "Send Money" tab on the PayPal website will receive an error message directing them to make payment from your website and will be unable to complete payment."
Thus, the only way people would be able to pay you is for you to first send them a PayPal invoice.
- Dan
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posted on August 21, 2001 02:36:06 PM new
thanks Dan. I removed my primary email and changed it - private. Now my ebay links won't work so have to change those to generic and post that I will give paypal info once transaction is complete. Very inconvient though as a lot of my buyers use that instant purchase when it's done but nothing I can do at this point.
I hope someome does something about this buyer, paypal said they can't block her as she did it once but trust me, she'll do it again. She harassed me enuf via my home email and got NAR'D once- don't get why I am not protected.
posted on August 21, 2001 03:59:34 PM new
Hi nightbird84,
There is no pattern of harassment, based on the records, that I can view. I see some transactions between you and the buyer---I then see one payment for .02 into your PayPal account. I recommended that you resolve the issue between the buyer or eBay, as I do not have any indicators that this is problematic. If problems persist---please let me know.
posted on August 21, 2001 04:10:43 PM new
So did nightbird get charged the percent and 35 cents to receive 2 cents? Doesn't seem quite logical does it? PayPal should be set up so that it CANNOT receive any payments that are less than the fees would be. Those should automatically get kicked back to the sender.
posted on August 21, 2001 04:36:28 PM new
paintpower,
Expecting paypal to set up something before it turns into a big giant hassle is like expecting Bush to say something intelligent. It ain't gonna happen.
Since one can already accept or deny some kinds of payments, I don't see why pp can't make all payments that way if a seller wants that option. Too logical? Too customer service oriented? They'll do it, but it will be after at least 100 sellers get hassled this way.
Or until the media writes a story about it. eBusinesses love bad press.
I feel very backed against a wall. If you only knew what this buyer put me thru - and you want me to contact her to work it out? She's a nutcase - I went thru H**l with her last month and reported her to safeharbor. I already mentioned she was NAR'D once, used another aol account on ebay to scam me and continues to harass me with paypal fees now that she's back on ebay? Oh but you say so she only sent one? Well what if the ONE turns into more? Many more? I asked for her to not be able to send me paypal, and you can't help me. It's my account, my money, my checking account it's attached to. Unfortunately talking to this nutcase does me no good and I feel backed against a wall. I thought paypal would be more service oriented, or at least willing to help. Why would I ask you to remove her if she wasn't trouble, even if she only sent me one set of .02 fees so I had to pay fees? can't you see it's not for an auction? Is my not asking you to take her off so she can't send me more PP $$$ enuf? I guess not. Very sad to be honest. I am a good honest seller and I don't need this nasty woman to continue to be able to abuse me with my funds. There is NOTHING on paypal to prevent this. I changed emails since you would not help me and now cannot have the purchase link in my auctions - all because of one person. I refuse to let ONE turn into many and possibly have my account depleted.
I agree with the statement to get this to change before it gets worse is like getting Bush to say something intelligent. Wonder if contacting the Better Business Bureau would help me more? I mean, after all it's my money she's playing with and to be honest I won't tolerate it.
posted on August 21, 2001 06:28:08 PM new
> Since one can already accept or deny some kinds of payments, I don't see why
> pp can't make all payments that way if a seller wants that option. Too logical? Too
> customer service oriented?
I suspect PayPal has resisted such a scheme because it would have a significant impact on the volume of processing fees they collect.
- Dan
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posted on August 21, 2001 06:37:41 PM new
> thanks Dan. I removed my primary email and changed it - private. Now my
> ebay links won't work so have to change those to generic and post that I will give
> paypal info once transaction is complete. Very inconvient though as a lot
> of my buyers use that instant purchase when it's done but nothing I can do at this
> point.
Yes, it is somewhat of a pain, but at least it will foil the buyer who is harrassing you from sending micropayments.
In terms of PayPal's access to your funds, this is what I do:
Maintain a SEPARATE checking account and credit card that you use ONLY for PayPal transactions (I have one that I use for only on-line payments from PayPal, Billpoint, etc.). Keep only a small balance in this checking account, and transfer funds from it to your primary checking account (preferably at a DIFFERENT bank) frequently. If you want to purchase an item using PayPal, just charge it to the credit card you have registered with them.
- Dan
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posted on August 22, 2001 03:06:04 AM new
dblumenfeld,
Of course you're correct. In the SHORT run, pp will collect fewer fees if they allow each seller the option of accepting or denying each transaction.
In the LONG run, sellers who get harrassed like this will jump ship for services like c2it where the buyer gets charged. Because you know if we're hearing about this now, it's bound to become a mini epidemic shortly.
Now which will really impact pp's bottom line? The business community in general needs to learn to look past next week. Upstart ebusinesses sometimes are the worst.
I also keep that second checking account you posted about. It doesn't provide complete protection, but when PayPal or Amazon finally make the inevitable error, it won't mess with the account I need to conduct my life.
posted on August 22, 2001 07:46:04 AM new
thanks again Dan and everyone. I will get a separate checking account and a new debit card to go with that - never thought of that. That will take some time but in the meantime I put my email addy back on and made the SEND ONLY option not available so she would have to pay me ONLY thru an auction and if she went into the old auction she would have to pay the same amount she did for item, I tired doing that so she'd be out the money if she did that. I will email me winners and change my reply letter to state that so winners know how to pay.
Frustrating that we have no protection from paypal. What she did is illegal actually, and am surprised paypal won't do anything about it before it gets worse. I have a feeling if she could do this, imagine what others will do to some for revenge?
posted on August 22, 2001 08:54:33 AM new
Just because it can be imagined, and would cost one money, something does not constitute an important risk.
There are LOTS of things other people could do to cause you grief. The point is, they don't do them, and for the same reason you don't do them to other people. In the unlikely event that somone actually does harass you using one of these unlikely techniques, then, and only then, do you work out a defense.
Seriously, what do you think PayPal would do in the unlikely event that someone sent 1,000 payments of .01, at a cost to the sender of $10 in cash and likely days of time? Here's what I think PayPal would do. I think they would look at the situation, conclude that it was bizarre, but fixable, and fix it, by refunding the .35 x 1000 charge. They would fix it not just because the recipient had not incurred a legitimate $350 charge, although that would be enough. They would fix it also because they would want the news reports to include a statement that "it didn't work".
You SAW Damon investigate carefully, right?
In other words, common sense prevailed in this actual case, and common sense would prevail in some unlikely but hypotetically possible case as well. This is ordinary life in action.
posted on August 22, 2001 09:33:18 AM new
actually it's harassment to me since she has harassed me by email, using 2 ebay user id's to bid on and retract my items and negative feedback and now continues with my paypal account. If one of you had exprerienced what I did with her, I think you'd be just as upset.
It is harassment since I've asked her to NOT contact me ever again a long time ago. She's doing it for revenge and whose to say that one paypal of 2 cents is it? I don't think it is but I've done what I had to to protect myself. I don't feel it was investiaged enuf - my point to Damon and paypal was I want her to NOT be able to send me any funds - why, per my request, can that not be done? I only ask to not send to me, not anyone else. Simple request, but they could not help.
posted on August 22, 2001 09:56:52 AM new
I can tell you that this bidder DID harass because Lauren is a friend of mine and a fellow eBayer. She was upset and sent me the e-mails she received from this person. I hope I never have to deal with someone like this!
For starters this bidder won an item for $25 and gave Lauren a hard time because she didn't want it sent by USPS. She claims EVERY single item she has had sent that way has been lost. So she wanted it sent by UPS. When Lauren couldn't send it that way, the bidder then said USPS was fine BUT she wanted it insured for $200 (at Lauren's expense!). When Lauren refused to insure it for way more than what she paid for it, the bidder became even more unreasonable. Lauren sent it by USPS with a confirmation. CONVENIENTLY the bidder said the item never arrived then negged Lauren. As if that wasn't enough, she used another AOL ID she had and bid high on Lauren's other items. THAT is why she was kicked off eBay (then reinstated and now has another neg for being unreasonable..big surprise!).
NOW a month later she is sending Lauren $.02 so she has to pay fees. Because you can't "see" that there is a harassment problem, doesn't mean there wasn't one! Okay, she sent it once but WHY? It was not for an auction transaction and it had nothing to do with anything BUT revenge.
I can't believe this is being taken so lightly (maybe I can....). It seriously has me debating on whether or not I ever want to use Paypal again. I *used* to feel relatively safe with them, then worried about chargebacks and NOW this. Is it worth the hassle?
I realize that this is a potentially difficult situtation. I have offered my assistance if the problem goes, but I do not have a clear indicator of a problem (based on account records). This is an action being taken by an individual and this is an item that we can't control per se---if more than one payment for .02 go through, I will re-visit this and see what we can do.
The only alternative is to remove the email alias, which may not be the most beneficial to you---but it is the only immediate item that could stop it.
posted on August 22, 2001 10:56:13 AM new
Thriftstorequeen hit it on the nail about what occured- thank you for posting all that! You said it better than I have been able to!
Damon, all I asked was for her to not be able to send me funds, period. I don't understand why such a simple request is so hard. All you continue to base it on is the .2 cents you see, not the trouble she's put me thru for month #2 now and the POTENTIAL future trouble I am trying to prevent.
Closing my paypal account may be just what I may do!
posted on August 22, 2001 11:03:11 AM new
Hi nightbird84,
This is not a simple request. You are asking me to do something that I can't do, which would include:
a) Taking action on another person based on message board comments.
b) Taking action based on one transaction, which could have been done in error.
I realize the problem is difficult here---I sympathize with what you are going through, but this issue is being caused by an individual---not PayPal. I have offered my assistance if it persists...I can't take action on one transaction for .02 and call it harassment.
posted on August 22, 2001 11:15:55 AM new
I see. So it wasn't Paypal that charged her 35 cents for that two cent payment? Gimme a break.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the victim here would mind someone sending her two cents once, twice, or a million times, if PAYPAL didn't take the 35 cents in fees each time. It is PAYPAL that turns this action into harassment and victimization.
Simply put, Paypal has set up its system to enable this sort of harassment, and to profit off of it.
It's not that difficult to write a bit of code to require the recipient to accept any payment of less than the fees charged. If a transaction was done in error, it could be denied and then done correctly. If it was harassment, it would be ineffective. In the unlikely event that someone *really* desired to lose 33 cents on a transaction, they could choose to do that as well.
This scenario has ben discussed many times on this and other boards, usually as a hypothetical "how to get revenge on a bad seller". So I can't believe that Paypal isn't aware that this can occur, and hasn't made the conscious decision not to make this modification, but to continue to enable the harassers and collect its fees.
What a shame that Paypal thinks adding 35 cents to its income is more important than protecting its users from harassment. Yep, I think she should definitely close her account.
posted on August 22, 2001 11:18:47 AM new
Bottom line: if someone can tweak you for 0.33 and you go off like a roman candle, you're going to become an important source of entertainment for your tormentors. Kids and bored adults are going to pull the tweak just to watch the show.
posted on August 22, 2001 12:27:00 PM new
Heaven help me for siding with paypaldamon for once!
One payment of $0.02 does not constitute harassment. It's just someone being a pinhead. One hundred, let's talk some more.
And it would not take "days of time" for someone to send 1000 micro payments. Any high school kid with a medium knowledge of html and web forms could program it in a day or two, and run 1000 payments in a few minutes. That is assuming, of course, that some similar hack is not already out there on a warez site for immediate download.
We are also forgetting that some users are still operating under "always free", and they could receive 1000 1cent payments, and have 10 bucks when it's all over.
posted on August 22, 2001 12:39:41 PM new
so the fact this woman harassed me by email for weeks and used 2 ebay accounts to continue and is now sending me pennies to my paypal account (even once) well after transaction is over telling me I "earned this" is not harassment? I'd like a definition of harassment then if that's not what she put me thru.
[ edited by bennybbb on Aug 21, 2001 10:52 AM ]
