posted on December 3, 2001 11:28:49 AM new
Believe it or not, x.com, the owner of paypal, actually had a buyer protection plan for buyers. This policy atarted 8/1/00. It said that buyers who buy from a verified seller are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount up to $5000 per year. This information was available at the site
http://www.pay-pal-infocenter.com/fraud.htm
I say WAS because it was available until I asked "Damon Billian" <[email protected]> about the site (he said that it has nothing to do with Paypal but the information on the site now reflects Paypals current no guarantee guarantee. I searched the web for information about the old guarantee and found a site which touted this guarantee
http://www.kidstories.com/pay_pal_guarantee.html
"Buyers who pay with PayPal are protected by X.com's Buyer Protection Guarantee. If you purchase an item from a Verified Seller and do not receive your purchased goods, you are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount up to $5000 per year. You may check the verification status of a Seller on every confirmation page before you Send Money. The Buyer Protection Guarantee applies whether you pay with a credit card, checking account, or funds in your PayPal acount."
The change came November 6, 2000 so the guarantee lasted only 3 months. "Solitto said one of the main reasons for the change in policy was to prevent double-investigation and double-collection on fraudulent transactions. " Yeah right! It had nothing to do with the fact that they were looking at losing mountains of money! Their guarantee went from $5000 to $0 with one sweep of the pen. That is pretty drastic.
posted on December 3, 2001 12:32:23 PM new
paypal lost a lot of money back in may,june due to fraud,i can see no one in their right mind would offer up to 5000 dollars protection in cyberspace.
what is to prevent us from buying from each other and getting 5000 per person per year?
all it takes is 1-3 transactions of laptops,pc and camera or any kind of antiques.
with a group of people working together ,they can clean out paypal in weeks.
think of it ,5000 per claim,10 of these claims would be 50,000,100 would be 500,000.
with the pace of ebay ,you can do this in a few days.
paypal was also scolded by visa and fined for too much fraud.
there is an artcle on that,someone posted it over the weekend on paypal IPO
posted on December 3, 2001 12:39:17 PM new
Hi gurista,
Information on our service should be taken from our web site only. It has the current information on the service, as well as the fact that is the site where all changes are updated. The site you mentioned, while trying to be helpful, is not affiliated with the company in any manner.
The Buyer Complaint Process has been in place since November of last year. PayPal, as a payment service, can't validate the items being listed at other venues for sale.
posted on December 3, 2001 12:48:02 PM new
Paypal did offer a "Guarantee" and they don't now. They deny that there ever was a guarantee. In order to give such a guarantee you must make sure that your sellers are legitimate and that is very, very hard to do. Maybe they should have never offered such a guarantee. But they did. Maybe they should word their present guarantee different like:
"When using the Paypal service, it is very likely you will be ripped off. We can't offer you any guarantees because we tried that and we almost lost our butts. If you do get ripped off we will ask the thief to return your money but he probably won't. Why would he? He is a thief. Don't bother asking us for any help beyond that because you were stupid to send a thief money in the first place. Be more careful next time! Thank you for using Paypal"
posted on December 5, 2001 12:15:27 AM new
Why would anyone buy something using PayPal if there is no buyer protection? PayPal brings no advantage to the table. They will lose a tremendous amount of valuable customers to this. But what do they care, they have tons of new uninformed customers signing up everyday. But eventually this will stop when the public realizes what these fools are about.
posted on December 5, 2001 06:25:39 AM new
Last August, I ordered and paid for an item, it never arrived. I tried contacting the seller, no response. At six weeks, I complained to PayPal after the seller did not contact me. Next day, the funds (about $21) were in my account!
Now I have a second problem, I have bought a different item, 4 weeks ago, for $14, valued at $300 (Jewelry). Item has never arrived. Mentioned the no arrival status to seller two weeks ago, he claims to have mailed it. Well, two weeks later, yesterday..I ask seller for refund. He flatly refuses, claims I should have bought insurance and delivery confirmation which was never mentioned in the item description. It was however, mentioned in his EOA. But I paid PayPal directly before reading his EOA. He has called me names and has been abusive (all over $14!)This abusive person is now is now sending ATTACHMENTS with his email. Claims they are scans of his mail receipt, and he has told me that I am a liar sveral times over.We don't open attachments for obvious reasons. I have asked him to phone me, he refuses. I contacted PayPal yesterday for an investigation leading to a refund. I am content to leave it in their hands and will stand by the decision PayPal makes as a disinterested third party.
I am sure he will give me a vicious neg as he has done to others who complained they never received their item. I haven't negged him yet.
posted on December 5, 2001 09:45:57 AM new
Goldenclutter,
a $14 ripoff is a bummer. If the seller refuses to give back yor money and Paypal doesn't help you, you have reason to be mad. But imagine if you will, you bought a Sony LCD Projector for $2600 plus $29 for shipping = $2629. The seller is gone, Amazon.com auctions says "oh too bad you should have used our payment plan" even though you can't if your sale is over $2500, even $2500.01 won't work, Paypal just tells you you were stupid to buy from a thief, and your Visa card bank, FIRST USA INCORPORATED, tells you they "can't do a chargeback" even though Paypal has been charged back and fined many, many times. Then how would you feel? I would trade places with you in a second! Paypal will have to start doing something about the way they do business or Ebay is going to get a call from Paypal's creditors wanting them to sell all of Paypal's stuff (if you buy any of it make sure you don't pay with Paypal!)
posted on December 5, 2001 09:49:18 AM new
a 300 dollar jewelry and you paid 14 dollars??
and you did not buy insurance and dc??
either there was never any jewelry or it is really worth 14 dollars,write it off and learn a lesson,move on
posted on December 5, 2001 09:57:39 AM new
paypal is not part of ebay,billpoint is 80% owned by ebay.
as for the 2600 projector,amzn should do more than saying too bad,it should go after the seller as he is giving amzn auction a bad name.
amzn has his data on file.
you dont need amzn,you can file report with different agencies and have them go after this seller.
posted on December 5, 2001 09:59:05 AM new
you should have read amzn auction terms and protection before you start to bid,that 2500 max should have been stated in their terms of agreement .
posted on December 5, 2001 10:22:21 AM new
Contact agencies like who? The Houston Police? Their routine goes like:
1) First you call the Houston PD and talk to an operator. You learn that it is not their job to take a report but to just take a phone number and "someone else will call you back" either they don't ever call back or if they do, it is several hours later. They leave a message on your answering machine to call them back (they leave no name). You call back and get the same operator who can only take your name and phone number "somebody will call you back".
2)Your case is bounced around to every department in the Houston PD because no one knows where it belongs and doesn't want to do anything for you.
3)Every person you talk to says the same thing, "We can't do anything. You were the only one ripped off by this guy and that makes this a civil matter. You need to hire a lawyer."
"Oh, lots of people have been cheated by him?"
4)"Well, we don't have jurisdiction in this. You live in Oregon and we aren't really sure where he lives. Oh, Houston? But we don't have an address. Oh you do? Oh but........"
5)Finally it does get assigned to the right department and you think you are on your way. The officer tells you he is on it and will go out to the house TODAY! A week later you get a call at 6:00 in the morning from a cop in a different department who says the other cop sent this to him but he can't do anything because the information is all wrong and incomplete. You go over it all again with him and he says "I don't think we can do anything for you".
6)You call in and talk to the previous officer and he says that it shouldn't have been sent to that cop in the first place he actually meant to send it to someone else but they must not have wanted the case but he is sure that he will find the right department and he will get right on it NEXT WEEK!
posted on December 5, 2001 10:24:43 AM new
Buyer had fixed shipping for the item and no mention of insurance or DC in his item description. I paid paypal right away. I just reread the item description to make sure. Just noticed that his valuation was $600, not the $300 that has stuck in my mind. I buy alot of jewelry on ebay and always, insurance and/or DC is included. Honest sellers cannot take a chance that an expensive item doesn't arrive and include insurance as mandatory in the fixed shipping charge. I have learned from this $14 (really a minor problem amongst your greater PayPal problem) experence and I will move on.
What a disaster to spend so much money on electronics equipment! And not get your money back!!! Time to call a district prosecuting attorney on that one and Federal Trade Commission.
posted on December 6, 2001 11:57:01 AM new
First USA doesn't allow disputes to a charge from PayPal, even if you didn't receive the goods? I'll never use First USA with PayPal again... what about CapitalOne?
posted on December 6, 2001 12:14:11 PM new
andrew123s,
First USA seems to have softened their hardline with me. They at first said "no way" but now they had me send in all my communications with Paypal, the "seller", and Amazon.com. They haven't told me YES but they stopped saying NO! I have heard that Next Card guarantees internet purchases
http://www.creditcardsafety.net/
If this is true, this is a good plus to use their card. I already have one and I could have used it to buy through Paypal but I used First USA instead. Maybe if there is a big rush towards Next Card Visa, First USA will have to change their policies.
