posted on February 14, 2002 12:47:35 PM new
I didn't think this could really happen to people. Then it happened to me. Just today!
Background: I was a PayPal Verified Premier account holder. I had 275 confirmed transactions. I have been a member virtually since they began. Never had a problem. No disputes. I was primarily a seller but am now mostly a buyer on eBay. My feedback rating is +2439.
How my PayPal account became closed:
1. On 1 Feb (Friday evening), I got an e-mail from PayPal saying that my account had been "Restricted." No advance warning or phone calls. I filled out the PayPal appeals form on-screen and asked them "Why?"
2. Like everyone else, I got the standard boilerplate non-response. Subsequent messages to PayPal returned the same vague pablum.
3. On Monday, 4 Feb, I called the toll-free customer service number. The person explained that I needed to fax in a photocopy of my driver's license, a copy of a utility bill, & a copy of my credit card statement. I again asked "Why?" and he couldn't tell me. I said, "If there is fraud occurring on my account, shouldn't you tell me details so that I can notify the appropriate authorities &/or my financial institutions." These words fell on deaf ears.
4. After stewing in my juices for awhile, I finally faxed in all of the documentation that they wanted on Friday, 8 Feb.
(Please keep in mind that all this time there were auctions closing upon which I was the high bidder. Many sellers would only accept PayPal.)
5. I called PayPal again on Monday, 11 Feb. They said that their fax machine was down over the weekend, they had just gotten my documentation, and they wouldn't be able to review my paperwork until Wednesday (13 Feb).
6. On Thursday morning, 14 Feb (today), seeing that my account was still restricted, I called PayPal again. I was informed that I had to re-fax original documents (some of the previous ones were online copies because I manage all of my accounts on the web). I faxed originals in to them 15 minutes later.
7. This afternoon (just a half-hour ago), I called again to check on the status of my restriction. The PayPal person said that they hadn't gotten my fax. I volunteered to re-fax it. Then she said that the investigator hadn't gotten in yet. Then she asked me to hold again...
8. ...which brings me to this point. When she comes back on the line, she says, "You don't need to fax us anything else. Your account has been closed." I was flabbergasted. When I asked "why" she said that it was because I had been referring non-existent people to PayPal just to collect the $5 referral bonus. I said that I hadn't referred anybody to PayPal since back in the year 2000, and that referrals were very common back then as it was a method on their part to build up the customer base. She agreed that I hadn't referred anyone since 2000, but said that their investigator had come to the conclusion that I was making bogus referrals just to cash in.
Needless to say, I was/am dumbfounded. Back when PayPal was a young upstart, I had gone out of my way to refer buyers/ friends/ relatives to PayPal as a great new way to pay for things online by credit card. Sure, I made a good sum of money off of those referrals, but not a single one of them was bogus. My suspicion is that PayPal tried to contact some of those users now (two years later) and found some of the e-mail addresses to be dead / deactivated / abandoned (whatever word you want to use). And since PayPal didn't get a reply from those folks, PayPal concluded that they were made-up and that I was a fraud. Wow. I still can't believe it.
And to make matters worse, I now have about a dozen sellers waiting for me to pay them via PayPal. Some (esp. overseas/intl.) will ONLY take PayPal. My eBay feedback rating is going to take some serious negative hits in the next few days. This sucks big time.
So there's my story. I don't know if this "Damon" fellow really exists or if he can help. The PayPal people told me that their decision CANNOT be appealed. The gal on the phone said that her supervisor wasn't in today (what? they only have one supervisor) so I couldn't talk to anyone else but her. Fortunately (for her), she hung up on me before I could let it sink in and get irate. I was still in shock when the line went "click."
posted on February 14, 2002 02:19:35 PM new
Wow! I have a "good news" follow-up to report to anyone who reads about my experience with PayPal. I had sent the details to PayPal's Damon ([email protected]) right after making this post on AuctionWatch, and within 15 minutes he replied saying that he would look into it, then within another 15 minutes he admitted that PayPal had made a mistake -- AND MY ACCOUNT WAS RE-OPENED.
posted on February 15, 2002 11:34:38 AM new
The thing I don't get is; Over and over again, we hear about these insanely rude 'Customer Service' reps making outrageous claims, and then 'click'.... dial tone...
Damon says "This was most certainly an error on our end". Do you have absolutley zero quality control? Does even ONE of your reps know how to use common sense when dealing with customers? Why don't you try 'monitoring customer service phone calls to ensure quality' (as most normal companies that would like to actually KEEP their customers do). I just find it so hard to believe that this company can continue to behave this way, and go along thinking 'everythings okay'. Maybe when they lose a few more lawsuits like the one NWREBEL just won against them, they'll finally realize that EVERYTHING'S NOT OKAY!
posted on February 15, 2002 11:41:16 AM new
Hi ltlcrafty1,
Examples that come to the boards are not indicative of customer service contacts. Rude behavior is not acceptable, and it is something that we take action on.
PayPal also employs a variety of quality control items.
posted on February 15, 2002 12:33:03 PM new
Damon,
I disagree. Given the number of examples of poor and/or non-existent customer service that I've seen on this message board as well as others - and add to that my personal experience with your company - that to me IS indicative of your customer service contacts... in fact, it's not just indicative... it speaks for itself!
posted on February 15, 2002 07:15:23 PM new
paypaldamon,
Hey, if you get my account situation fixed I will take back everything I've said about Paypal customer service and Paypal in general. I still think that things should be changed in the verification process and such to make Paypal more secure but I would much rather resolve things amicably before any lawsuits fly.
I don't owe Paypal and Paypal doesn't owe me. I think that is more than fair. I'll even put it in writing if you like.
I'm really tired of filing complaints and such but I will continue if I don't get any response. I never had any problems with Paypal before this one problem and now I'm stuck with 1/3 of an order shipped and paid for and its a real mess for me and I just want out. Thank you paypaldamon if you can work your magic and show me Paypal has a heart and understands the plight of victimized users else I hope you understand that I have to do what I have to do. Else at least you can give me a "real" idea of what is going on with my accounts which is all I wanted in the first place but the lady I was dealing with kept insisting on more and more faxes after I faxed my drivers license, my bank account info, my electric bill, etc. I have a debit card attached to my account and she kept insisting on a "credit card statement" even after I told her it is a debit card! As far as I am concerned I have faxed all I will fax, I am not a criminal and it pisses me off that after giving her more information than most banks require that she would take such an indifferent attitude towards me. I'm sorry for venting but it just drives me crazy, why can't Paypal give a once loyal user a break?
posted on February 16, 2002 12:25:30 PM new
I don't think PayPal wants loyal users. I think they want new uninformed people who they can manipulate easily. Most of the people here complaining are long time customers. It seems as if they try to dump you after a couple years.
posted on February 16, 2002 12:53:01 PM newdealerjimI think they want new uninformed people who they can manipulate easily.
I disagree strongly with that. Users that understand PayPal's terms, and understand the tools they have as a buyer and seller make for good customers.
Let me point out a few things with fnewbrough.
1st This user doesn't understand the difference between a verified user and a confirmed shipping address as demonstrated in this post.
2nd fnewbrough's request to have two accounts closed isn't rational. Anyone could post to have two accounts closed whether they belonged to them or not. You need to log on and enter your password to close your account.
3rd fnewbrough's statement that PayPal doesn't owe him money, nor does he owe PayPal money has some doubt with me. Here's why. If you attempt to send $1 to either of those two email addresses you are given the dialog "This recipient is currently unable to receive money" that indicates the accounts are restricted. So if the accounts are restricted, and no money is owed to either party according to fnewbrough then fnewbrough doesn't even need to close his account, he could just walk away.
There is more to the story than is being told.
Dealerjim, I realize that your heckling PayPal is a fond pastime but your habit of coming to the conclusion that PayPal is always wrong makes your observations of little worth. If PayPal wanted uninformed people as customers then you would be a prime candidate.
posted on February 16, 2002 02:39:34 PM new
Uaru, you say Dealerjim always jumps to the conclusion that Paypal is wrong. You always (or almost always at least) jump to the conclusion that PayPal is right.
posted on February 16, 2002 03:15:12 PM newYou always (or almost always at least) jump to the conclusion that PayPal is right.
I made no judgement as to whether fnewbrough or PayPal was in the wrong. How could I with only one side of the story. I did however point out some problems in fnewbrough post and his preception of PayPal regulations.
posted on February 16, 2002 07:37:43 PM new
I'm not saying you were. I also had questions on his story. But I asked the questions I had. Maybe he did have a rational reason. I don't see posts from you finding problems with Damon's posts.
