Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 05:37:50 AM new
On August 6, 2002, PayPal took $2350.00 out of my account, stating it was due to a "possibly fraudulent" transaction. They also "restricted" my husband's account and have seized our money even though there was no fraud whatsoever in this transaction. My husband, who had been working out of town and has his own PayPal account with separate bank account linked to it, had sent me this money to pay our mortgage and other bills because he knew I had used PayPal for auctions without any problems. Although PayPal had no trouble taking the money out of my husband's bank account on July 31 and holding it until August 5, it then seized our money on August 6 after it was transferred to my PayPal account and I tried to put it into our local bank account. Since that time, both my husband and I have repeatedly contacted PayPal by fax, email and phone without getting anywhere. We have fully cooperated with PayPal in giving them the information and documentation they demanded. Instead of responding in any appropriate way, they have refused to give us our money and the customer service people have acted in a very rude manner when we have attempted to ascertain when we would have our money. Wondering whether there was any help for us out there, I stumbled upon this message board and was shocked to see that this was happening to many people. I have emailed Damon at PayPal and so has my husband. We hope that he will resolve this soon as I do not have any money to pay bills, pay my daughter's tuition, buy grocieries, etc. We were embarassed to have to ask my 83 year old father in law to loan us some money just to buy groceries. This money was virtually all the liquid funds we had available to us. I hope that PayPal will see how its actions are hurting totally innocent people and will give us our money soon. Thank you for this opportunity to vent.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on August 9, 2002 06:02:16 AM new
what was the reason for the restriction?
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uaru
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posted on August 9, 2002 06:18:18 AM new
Tedmom I have emailed Damon at PayPal and so has my husband.
That's the best move you can make in a situation like this. Damon does expedite things.
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Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 06:25:32 AM new
The only reason given to me was it was due to a "possibly fraudulent" transaction. As shown in my original post, this was not a fraudulent transaction and we've provided the documentation and other information they demanded. Nevertheless, we still do not have our money or any estimated time when we will see it. I am glad Damon helped other people and am still holding out hope that perhaps he will help us too and resolve this matter asap.
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stopwhining
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posted on August 9, 2002 06:48:34 AM new
someone may have filed chargeback with his/her credit card issuer,it takes 2 months for paypal or the seller (if he has his own merchant account) to learn that chargebacks have been filed.
fraudulent transaction could mean someone has stolen other people cc data and use it to buy things from you.
what is the average dollar amount of your sales??
there is no way to fight fraudulent transaction,paypal will lose the chargeback and turn around and take the money from your account,this is no different if you have your own merchant account.
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club1man
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posted on August 9, 2002 07:19:45 AM new
If and when you get your money back, the best thing you both can do is close your accounts and deal with a reputable company. It's a shame how many people are duped into doing business with this bunch of thieves.
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Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 08:36:55 AM new
In response to Stopwhining:
There are no chargebacks and the sole transaction was the transfer of funds between my husband and me. I do a small amount of auctions (less than $500 per year) and my account is clean of any problems at all. My account is not "restricted", only my husband's is. My husband never does auctions. That is why this is so frustrating. There is absolutely no reason why they haven't given either my husband or me our own funds.
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Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 10:51:15 AM new
Today I received an email from PayPal saying that they had to confirm the "legitimacy" of our funds before they will give us back OUR money. These were funds that PayPal transferred out of my husband's bank account and sat on for five days and only seized our money after the funds were transferred to my account for withdrawal to my local bank. If they had a problem with the "legitimacy" of the funds, why did they take them in the first place out of my husband's bank account and then say after five days they were available for use?? Notably, they also deducted their $60 fee from these funds and apparently had no qualms about their "legitimacy" when they paid themselves. I feel absolutely helpless. I am still hoping that Damon will help us, though, since it does appear that he has helped others.
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mrfoxy76
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posted on August 9, 2002 10:55:40 AM new
best thing you can do is get your money out ASAP close your account and i guess like a lot of us here you have learned from experience PAYPAL SUCKS and you have NO CONTROL whatsoever with whatever money you may have in your account.
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 9, 2002 10:57:38 AM new
Hi Tedmom,
I have talked to your husband about the issue, as well as why the account was restricted. I am working the case with our customer service team at the moment.
(I can't discuss their account with you, even though you are related).
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Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 11:02:02 AM new
To Damon:
I haven't spoken to my husband yet today. The last I heard from him last night was that there was still no resolution. As you can see, this has been a very frustrating situation for us. I hope that you will help and that this matter can be resolved today. Thank you.
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Flaoisland
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posted on August 9, 2002 11:19:31 AM new
Tedmom: I do not understand Paypal's posted response since you had the money taken out of your account. Certainly Paypal's Damon can talk to you about your account even if he cannot talk about your husband's. The best outcome to hope for is that PayPal will give you your money back and tell you it was your fault. I am not saying that is your fault, but they like to blame the customer. I am starting to think also that they ask people to come back and post and thank them in public. I would decline - why thank them for just doing what they are supposed to do in the first place? Either way I hope you come back to tell us what Paypal claimed to you and your husband. A lot of times people get their problem solved and then disappear. I would like to know the explanation given by Paypal for putting you through this.
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Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 12:22:45 PM new
I was just informed by Damon that our money has just been put back in my PayPal account. Although Damon did not ask me to publicly thank him, I will do so since I do not believe that this would have been resolved this quickly without his help. I just hope that PayPal will learn from this incident that its policy on seizing money from their customer's accounts is hurting totally innocent people and that if they continue to engage in this conduct, they need to hire about a 1,000 Damons to avoid injuring innocent people. Once again, I do want to thank Damon, though, since I do believe he did his best to help us.
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uaru
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posted on August 9, 2002 12:35:46 PM new
Tedsmom I do want to thank Damon, though, since I do believe he did his best to help us.
Damon does expedite things. I told you so. 
Your husband might be told what triggered the hold on the funds. Fraud is a big concern and those same measures that caused your money to be put on hold could have just as easily been used to protect your money from a crook.
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Flaoisland
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posted on August 9, 2002 02:11:31 PM new
Tedmom: I'm glad you got your money back, but did they give you an explanation as to why you had to go through this? As far as Paypal's Damon, he simply does what the company was supposed to do in the first place. When your money is held hostage you of course feel grateful.
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 9, 2002 02:13:05 PM new
Hi Flaoisland,
The party (husband) was advised what caused the issue, as well as what indicators were responsible for the decision to restrict.
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Flaoisland
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posted on August 9, 2002 02:15:31 PM new
Uaru: Do you think Paypal should have all of its operating cash frozen while the New York DA and U.S. Attorney investigate Paypal? That is basically what Paypal does to people.
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Flaoisland
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posted on August 9, 2002 02:18:55 PM new
Paypal's Damon: I was not asking you if they had been advised. It is amazing how quickly you respond to this thread but you have been unable to respond to the many questions over many months about Paypal and illegal online gambling.
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uaru
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posted on August 9, 2002 03:09:51 PM new
Flaoisland Uaru: Do you think Paypal should have all of its operating cash frozen while the New York DA and U.S. Attorney investigate Paypal?
If there was a realistic possibility of PayPal loading up the suitcases and heading to the Cayman Islands yes. Apparently PayPal isn't in that level of risk or they would lock up their cash.
If there was a case of fraud indicators with an individual PayPal members account do you think PayPal should just sit by and hope it isn't fraud and hope if it is they can recover the money through other methods? I'd really like an answer to that question that makes business sense.
Do you think if I took my VISA credit card that I haven't used in 6 months and started purchasing hundreds of dollars worth of electronic gear with it all over town that I'd ever reach my credit limit before that card had a block on it till they were able to confirm it was really me using it?
Such is the nature of the beast in fraud prevention. There are fraud triggers that set off a fail-safe actions to put a halt to further losses until doubt is removed. Banks, credit card issuers, merchants, casinos, etc. they all employ such measures to a degree.
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Tedmom
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posted on August 9, 2002 04:15:56 PM new
To Floaisland:
I never received any specific reason why PayPal took our money. My husband told me he was also not given specific reasons, other than generally that supposed "red flags" were raised. While there is no doubt that PayPal has to have some security measures to ensure that they do not lose money through actual fraud, I guess my complaint is with the rude behavior of their customer service people and the fact that if they were concerned that my husband's funds were not "legitimate," why did they take the money out of his account, let it sit in his PayPal account for five days and then decide only after he transferred the funds to me that there was some problem with the "legitimacy" of these funds. Since PayPal delays clearing the funds for up to five business days, shouldn't they be using that time to conduct their investigation and not after the customer has transferred the funds to someone else? A number of years ago, someone stole my access number for my long distance account and started making a lot of calls to various foreign countries, prisons, etc. My long distance carrier contacted me to ask whether I placed these calls. When I said no, they did not restrict my account, they immediately gave me a new account number and the issue was solved within a matter of minutes. From the large number of complaints on this issue, it would seem that there must be a better way of protecting everyone - PayPal customers included.
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 9, 2002 04:22:20 PM new
Hi Tedmom,
I gave your husband two different reasons why the restriction was put in place. The email was quite straightforward about the why, and I did explain the fraud aspects relative to it. The issue was with possible unauthorized bank account use which is why the restriction was put in place (and the funds held) until we could confirm the identity. This is to reduce the likelihood that someone stole your personal information and to reduce the possibility of receiving stolen funds from a financial instrument.
I realize the process was inconvenient. But the process is in place to protect you (and other users) from fraud. It is why PayPal has low fraud rates.
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Flaoisland
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posted on August 9, 2002 06:12:14 PM new
Well said, Tedmom. Perhaps your husband will post the email without any private information so we can compare your story with Paypal's Damon. Thanks for coming back and sharing.
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Flaoisland
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posted on August 9, 2002 06:22:34 PM new
I just thought of something. When my account was fraudulently accessed the criminal kept trying to send money from the debit card I had on file. He-she started high and went until the transaction got approved. Over and over he kept getting denied denied denied. When you looked at the whole screen of transactions it was the biggest flag. Did the Paypal system stop it? Not at all. Was this because no money was going out of Paypal's system but just in.
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